Junior football, what is the future?

[Red Rose]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The first thing that has to happen before any of this, is for the SJFA to decide itself what it actually wants and they can't do that until they either hold an EGM or have their AGM.  Neither of those will happen before June and until then all they have is an opinion from clubs, some of whom want tier 5, some want tier 6, and some want nothing to do with the whole thing.  Until then, TJ doesn't have anything to place on the table, other than he wants tier 6 entry, which was only one of the three answers to the survey and for which he has no formal agreement from member clubs to negotiate on. 

He told clubs that was what he was going to do at the East meeting, he's not even met West clubs yet who were 45% against the Pyramid.  There are way more questions than he has answers for, he doesn't actually have any answers.

He wrote an email to the SFA Board asking for tier 6, they discussed it, they haven't yet communicated formally to anyone what their thoughts are.  That's it as it stands.

To answer the "what if..."  they wont get tier 6 or 7 entry in the East as a separate league IMO.

 

Are Blackburn confirmed to the EOS with the big rose?

[Che Dail]

6 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

SJFA plans are fantasy. Time to move now and get in early. 

It's like Alan Partridge pitching to that BBC Exec for radio Norwich. Ridiculous. 

"Idea for a pyramid..."

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Che Dail

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The first thing that has to happen before any of this, is for the SJFA to decide itself what it actually wants and they can't do that until they either hold an EGM or have their AGM.  Neither of those will happen before June and until then all they have is an opinion from clubs, some of whom want tier 5, some want tier 6, and some want nothing to do with the whole thing.  Until then, TJ doesn't have anything to place on the table, other than he wants tier 6 entry, which was only one of the three answers to the survey and for which he has no formal agreement from member clubs to negotiate on. 

He told clubs that was what he was going to do at the East meeting, he's not even met West clubs yet who were 45% against the Pyramid.  There are way more questions than he has answers for, he doesn't actually have any answers.

He wrote an email to the SFA Board asking for tier 6, they discussed it, they haven't yet communicated formally to anyone what their thoughts are.  That's it as it stands.

To answer the "what if..."  they wont get tier 6 or 7 entry in the East as a separate league IMO.

 

The SJFA will have to be at the same level across the board surely which could see them (if you are correct) being at level 8 with there being two senior divisons above them in East, West and North. This whole thing's like a pre-schooler's artwork: a shoddy mess.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Red Rose said:

Are Blackburn confirmed to the EOS with the big rose?

Yes, application in.

[Red Rose]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Yes, application in.

Good stuff. Think the last time we met was the penalty defeat around 2014/15? 

[Che Dail]

2 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Youth Hostelling with Tom Johnston? 

A-ha!

Or arm-wrestling with Chas and Dave.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

The SJFA will have to be at the same level across the board surely which could see them (if you are correct) being at level 8 with there being two senior divisons above them in East, West and North. This whole thing's like a pre-schooler's artwork: a shoddy mess.

I just can't see how the SJFA can enter the Pyramid as a body controlling leagues, as I pointed out a while ago what is preferable to the SFA;

SFA - WoSFL

SFA - SJFA - WRJFA

Its just another layer of bureaucracy which the SFA can well do without, and to add a second East feeder to the LL is just absurd.

Let the WRJFA form a new WoSFL, similar in the North (both fairly straightforward), and let the clubs in the East join the EoS and fold the ERJFA (or merge), there is no need for the SJFA within the Pyramid,  after all the SFL voted itself out of existence for the greater good not so long ago.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

Good stuff. Think the last time we met was the penalty defeat around 2014/15? 

It was, should never have gone to pens either!

[Junior_Arab]

51 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

It's like Alan Partridge pitching to that BBC Exec for radio Norwich. Ridiculous. 

"Idea for a pyramid..."

 

Edinburgh City Sumo! If you don’t take it, Sky will. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Junior_Arab

[Red Rose]

47 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It was, should never have gone to pens either!

Only memory I have for that game is that arsehole mcglynn joking about with his pal and the last pen. See you next year, maybe. 

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, kefc said:

Quite bizarre, there in lies a lot of chats and agreements on structuring that may or may not pass.

Believe me it won't happen, as portrayed here.

This kind of change would need a full SFA meeting to approve it, and the EoS would have been advised and given the opportunity to raise any points, or objections, especially as there is no clear proposal (rumour) about having 1 or 2 East feeder leagues.  

There may be an unofficial  'nod' to junior clubs that there will be a West feeder league in 2019/20, which is obvious anyway, but this would need to be approved by the SJFA and its clubs, possibly at its forthcoming AGM.  Do the West juniors know anything about this, and do they  want it ?  Also, the SFA would need to issue a formal statement  as it did when the Lowland League was being formed.

Where is the official reply to TJ, from the SFA in response to his letter to them ?  Also, the SFA would need to issue a formal statement next week confirming this 'agreement', ahead of the scheduled EoS EGM. Let's see if it happens !

 However, if this turns out to be unofficial 'hot air' from TJ,   his position will be untenable, without doubt IMO.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, sevesnape said:

Desperate Bo'ness committee man alert.

Back of a fag packet plan, or worse. Surprised that Bo'ness are being taken in.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

The first thing that has to happen before any of this, is for the SJFA to decide itself what it actually wants and they can't do that until they either hold an EGM or have their AGM.  Neither of those will happen before June and until then all they have is an opinion from clubs, some of whom want tier 5, some want tier 6, and some want nothing to do with the whole thing.  Until then, TJ doesn't have anything to place on the table, other than he wants tier 6 entry, which was only one of the three answers to the survey and for which he has no formal agreement from member clubs to negotiate on. 

He told clubs that was what he was going to do at the East meeting, he's not even met West clubs yet who were 45% against the Pyramid.  There are way more questions than he has answers for, he doesn't actually have any answers.

He wrote an email to the SFA Board asking for tier 6, they discussed it, they haven't yet communicated formally to anyone what their thoughts are.  That's it as it stands.

To answer the "what if..."  they wont get tier 6 or 7 entry in the East as a separate league IMO.

 

100% agree with your conclusions.

 

Additionally, don't forget that there are 2 tiers in the existing North Region Juniors, and the NCL (all clubs  joining at tier 6 - nonsense).

What about the SoSL, or will we have 4 feeders into the Lowland. Less chance of progression up the pyramid from tier 6, but at least there would be extra [promotion play-offs.  Not so much a pyramid; more like a mole hill.

Then there's the boundary issue around Tayside clubs and where would they would slot in ? Tier 6 of course !

And the Ayrshire clubs. Will they see this is a great idea, or as a 'Panic on the Titanic '? 

And Licensing suspended for junior clubs. I can't imagine how that helps anyone.

Yet all of this has been resolved(informally and in principle) over beer (or coffee) & sandwiches, in a dark room by a few "blazers". It's so simple, and everyone can pass "Go"for 2019/20 ! Why didn't we do this years ago ?

 

 

[Truthteller]

Lets be honest, Kelty played a master stroke by entering the EOSL when they did as there was only one genuine league opponent to challenge for the league and then a SOSL team to get in the LL.  Basically 3  cup finals to get into the LL ( Both games against LTHV and a game v the SOSL champions), the rest have been cannon fodder.

Given the number of teams now potentially moving to the EOSL these teams could face a long time trying to get out of the EOSL league because even if they do win the league they could still possibly remain in the same league depending on how they fare against the SOSL winners. Remember only one team can possibly be promoted every season and the season could be finished early.

Even the league winners may not move up a league. IMO Bonnyrigg are realistically the only team that could emulate what Kelty have done this season.

[drs]

But moving to the seniors isn't just about getting out of the EOS, its about improving the club, community focus, youth development etc etc

 

Its only those trolling or obsessed with the "grade" who fixate on getting out of the EOS, I'll take the league with fixtures and a future for several years ahead of a moribund setup that has been dying for decades with no response.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by drs

[findla80]

As will the rose unless there is a change in thinking from some connected to the club.we even have folk saying,the rose will leave over my dead body ffs.

This is the kind of attitude that could and probably will come back and haunt the rose! Some of the committee need to have a really good look at themselves before it’s to late!!![emoji35]

[garrellburn]

8 hours ago, Robert James said:

Back of a fag packet plan, or worse. Surprised that Bo'ness are being taken in.

Taken in? admitted or duped?

[superbigal]

It's like Alan Partridge pitching to that BBC Exec for radio Norwich. Ridiculous. 
"Idea for a pyramid..."
 

Taken in? admitted or duped?

The SJFA will have to be at the same level across the board surely which could see them (if you are correct) being at level 8 with there being two senior divisons above them in East, West and North. This whole thing's like a pre-schooler's artwork: a shoddy mess.

This is 100% the key point. Tj will assume that with the juniors realistically entering in the north and west at tier 6 that automatic entry in the east will be at that level.
Now the 1st point is perfectly rational as there is not a lot currently in place in those 2 areas.
To brazenly think that he can just slot in his circa 30 remaining clubs in the east alongside the eos is cloud cuckoo claptrap. If he can make clubs believe this and withdraw their eos applications then it weakens the eos and boosts his case.
That is surely all this leaked statement is about.

[Auld Heid]

This is the kind of attitude that could and probably will come back and haunt the rose! Some of the committee need to have a really good look at themselves before it’s to late!!![emoji35]

Unfortunately that's what we are faced with. Currently the loudest voices are influencing negative opinions.

When we entered the super league the proposal was put to supporters and members. Our decision was influenced by that discussion.

Large numbers of our members have no concept of what is being proposed or consequences of staying put.

Without proper discussion we will turn up at AGM and the loud voices will shout down reason.

We have invested £000's on our infrastructure based on progression - we were miles ahead of Kelty. Now they have bypassed us by some distance.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, drs said:

But moving to the seniors isn't just about getting out of the EOS, its about improving the club, community focus, youth development etc etc

Its only those trolling or obsessed with the "grade" who fixate on getting out of the EOS, I'll take the league with fixtures and a future for several years ahead of a moribund setup that has been dying for decades with no response.

 

Spot on, I don't think the Lowland League was even mentioned when talking to the guys on the committee about this move.   The top division of the EoS will eventually be what the Superleague is now, but with clubs moving up and down from the LL,  and we want to establish ourselves there whilst enjoying all the other benefits and opportunities.