Junior football, what is the future?

[Born To Run]

Has TJ seriously only sent this e-mail to the prospective leavers? Talk about a desperate last-ditch attempt to save his own skin...

Possibly no coincidence that we've seen Bonnyrigg and Haddington confirm their EoS intentions over the last day or so.

[kefc]

Theres a “possible” “agreement in principle” recieved by “informal notification” with confirmation coming to the SJFA next week in writing or “verbally” from the acting SFA Chief Exec (who is leaving his post at the SFA on 5th May) that the Juniors will enter at tier 6 with a possible target for implementing commencing season 19/20.

Until the SJFA have a clear plan in that it can be presented to its clubs with all the agreements in place between them SFA, pyramid working group, Lowland and EOS/SOS League then it’s not much to go on.

For the sake of everyone involved they all need to get round the table as one to sort it out and present clubs with a clear integration plan and timeline, everyone working in different ways helps nobody.

By committing to the pyramid and EOS  for next season clubs know where they stand, the SJFA need the agreed plan sent to its clubs so they also have a plan to go on, verbal agreements and possibles aren’t enough at this stage.

Edited April 20, 2018 by kefc

[buloyal]

11 minutes ago, kefc said:

Theres a “possible” “agreement in principle” recieved by “informal notification” with confirmation coming to the SJFA next week in writing or “verbally” from the acting SFA Chief Exec (who is leaving his post at the SFA on 5th May) that the Juniors will enter at tier 6 with a possible target for implementing commencing season 19/20.

Until the SJFA have a clear plan in that it can present to its clubs with all the agreements in place between them SFA, pyramid working group, Lowland and EOS/SOS League then it’s not much to go on.

For the sake of everyone involved they all need to get round the table as one to sort it out and present clubs with a clear integration plan and timeline, everyone working in different ways helps nobody.

If it is proposed and goes through by the SFA and gets ratified through the Egm and passes surely this means that Bonnyrigg and others maybe jumped to soon 

[kefc]

1 minute ago, buloyal said:

If it is proposed and goes through by the SFA and gets ratified through the Egm and passes surely this means that Bonnyrigg and others maybe jumped to soon 

Doubt it, if this comes off then this will take a helluva time to get agreements and structures in place from all parties.

Im sure TJ said he had an agreement in place with Stewart Reagan, what happened to that?

[buloyal]

3 minutes ago, kefc said:

Doubt it, if this comes off then this will take a helluva time to get agreements and structures in place from all parties.

Im sure TJ said he had an agreement in place with Stewart Reagan, what happened to that?

If this has been ratified by the SFA,  I'm sure it will go thru. I'm sure a season would be enough to secure structures. And it throws the EOS league in doubt because that would have to be ratified as well 

[sevesnape]

Just now, buloyal said:

If this has been ratified by the SFA,  I'm sure it will go thru. I'm sure a season would be enough to secure structures. And it throws the EOS league in doubt because that would have to be ratified as well 

Desperate Bo'ness committee man alert.

[kefc]

3 minutes ago, buloyal said:

If this has been ratified by the SFA,  I'm sure it will go thru. I'm sure a season would be enough to secure structures. And it throws the EOS league in doubt because that would have to be ratified as well 

Brilliant, wouldn’t say it throws the EOS in doubt at all. Lets hope it does go through and if it does it’s great work by TJ on behalf of his clubs. We all want to see a vibrant non league with clubs able to progress and prosper.

Hopefully there’s a clear plan in place for all clubs starting next season so they know the lay of the land for their clubs in season 19/20.

Edited April 20, 2018 by kefc

[Deanburn Dave]

1 hour ago, Bell End said:

Surely if all junior teams come on board they will need to increase promotion opps to the LL, 1 place for 3 leagues wouldn't be great for fans

Agree about increasing thepromotion places.   Every league in Scotland should have the bottom 2 sides automatically relegated.   

[buloyal]

3 minutes ago, kefc said:

Brilliant, wouldn’t say it throws the EOS in doubt at all. Lets hope it does go through and if it does it’s great work by TJ on behalf of his clubs. We all want to see a vibrant non league with clubs able to progress and prosper.

Hopefully there’s a clear plan in place for all clubs starting next season so they know the lay of the land for their clubs in season 19/20.

I agree, it can only be good for the non league football. 

[stanley]

5 minutes ago, kefc said:

Brilliant, wouldn’t say it throws the EOS in doubt at all. Lets hope it does go through and if it does it’s great work by TJ on behalf of his clubs. We all want to see a vibrant non league with clubs able to progress and prosper.

Hopefully there’s a clear plan in place for all clubs starting next season so they know the lay of the land for their clubs in season 19/20.

Two East leagues at tier six?

[buloyal]

8 minutes ago, sevesnape said:

Desperate Bo'ness committee man alert.

You not already said that on another thread, or does nobody usually listen to you anyway lol ! 

[kefc]

1 minute ago, stanley said:

Two East leagues at tier six?

Quite bizarre, there in lies a lot of chats and agreements on structuring that may or may not pass.

[stanley]

Got to wonder how much of this is an attempt to stop junior clubs leaving for the seniors in the short term.  Even if it's just rumours it might help prevent other juniors applying 

The idea of senior leagues and two junior leagues all sitting alongside each other feeding into the Lowland League makes absolutely no sense.

Edited April 20, 2018 by stanley

[Ginaro]

For next season if the rumours of 28-30 clubs in the EoS come true, it means those clubs will outnumber the amount of teams remaining in the Juniors (~27) in Edinburgh, Fife, and the Lothians. Surely that is the point of no return for any sort of SJFA involvement in the east at tier 6? By 2019/20 the easiest solution for the Juniors to become part of the pyramid is by joining the EoS.

[Burnie_man]

22 minutes ago, stanley said:

Got to wonder how much of this is an attempt to stop junior clubs leaving for the seniors in the short term.  Even if it's just rumours it might help prevent other juniors applying 

The idea of senior leagues and two junior leagues all sitting alongside each other feeding into the Lowland League makes absolutely no sense.

This.

As kefc points out further up, the language used doesn't point to any sort of agreement, far from it, the interim CEO has received a request from TJ and has no reason to bin it - it's not his problem - so the board discuss it and say fine, let those involved at the sharp end take it further and discuss, nothing more than that.  Those at the sharp end are the LL, HFL, EoS and SoS who probably don't even know or at least not formally, and aren't going to stand aside and let the SJFA waltz in.  The SJFA don't even have agreement yet from it's own members as to what they want!

There's one immediate date at play here, 26th April when not only do the EoSFL hold their EGM, the SJFA and the West Region meet their member clubs to discuss the survey results the same night. It's a cynical attempt to place doubt in the minds of those who have applied to the EoS, and gives TJ the opportunity to wave a bit of paper at the West meeting ala Neville Chamberlain.  He knew it would leak through a troll on here.

From an East perspective, either the clubs simply join the EoS set-up or the ERJFA merges with the EoS with an agreed structure and how to place clubs. None of that will happen for next season, and it may take a lot longer than that.

This also assumes this isn't all a pile of bullshit!

Edited April 20, 2018 by Burnie_man

[cmontheloknow]

Just a 'what if'....

If the East of Scotland League does end up with around 30 members next season and plans to have a lower division at tier 7 in 19-20, where does that leave the collective SJFA if they don't get in at tier 6? East SJFA at Tier 7 along with EoS lower division?

The simplest way to sort this mess out would be for SFA put in place a cap on numbers in each division at tier 6 (e.g. 16), then create empty shell leagues at tier 6 for the geographical areas currently lacking one. Invite applicants. What remains of SJFA runs everything at tier 7 and below. The heirarchy of Senior-Junior-Amateur clearly marked out.

Difficulties with this - it would mean a close working relationship between the tier 6 leagues and the one above them at tier 5 and below them at tier 7. It might mean some of the junior defectors returning to the grade. It might mean some lads from Fife have to travel to Tweedmouth for a game (it's not much further than Dunbar and Berwick's a lovely town).

[kefc]

West and North clubs can easily be slotted in at tier 6 and I’m sure the SJFA won’t have a problem achieving that if they so wished but the East is a totally different scenario entirely.

Its very doubtful there will be anything in place within the next 6 months so that all clubs and associations have an agreement and clear plan presented to clubs on where they go and what the structure will be.

For the SJFA to simply say they have a verbal agreement in place with an outgoing Chief Exec on all Junior clubs coming in at tier 6 is a very very bold statement to say the least and something that will neeed backed up quickly with a clear agreed structure for clubs in the East.

[Red Rose]

36 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

For next season if the rumours of 28-30 clubs in the EoS come true, it means those clubs will outnumber the amount of teams remaining in the Juniors (~27) in Edinburgh, Fife, and the Lothians. Surely that is the point of no return for any sort of SJFA involvement in the east at tier 6? By 2019/20 the easiest solution for the Juniors to become part of the pyramid is by joining the EoS.

Exactly. Common sense. 

[Red Rose]

7 minutes ago, kefc said:

West and North clubs can easily be slotted in at tier 6 and I’m sure the SJFA won’t have a problem achieving that if they so wished but the East is a totally different scenario entirely.

Its very doubtful there will be anything in place within the next 6 months so that all clubs and associations have an agreement and clear plan presented to clubs on where they go and what the structure will be.

For the SJFA to simply say they have a verbal agreement in place with an outgoing Chief Exec on all Junior clubs coming in at tier 6 is a very very bold statement to say the least and something that will neeed backed up quickly with a clear agreed structure for clubs in the East.

SJFA plans are fantasy. Time to move now and get in early. 

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Just a 'what if'....

If the East of Scotland League does end up with around 30 members next season and plans to have a lower division at tier 7 in 19-20, where does that leave the collective SJFA if they don't get in at tier 6? East SJFA at Tier 7 along with EoS lower division?

The simplest way to sort this mess out would be for SFA put in place a cap on numbers in each division at tier 6 (e.g. 16), then create empty shell leagues at tier 6 for the geographical areas currently lacking one. Invite applicants. What remains of SJFA runs everything at tier 7 and below. The heirarchy of Senior-Junior-Amateur clearly marked out.

Difficulties with this - it would mean a close working relationship between the tier 6 leagues and the one above them at tier 5 and below them at tier 7. It might mean some of the junior defectors returning to the grade. It might mean some lads from Fife have to travel to Tweedmouth for a game (it's not much further than Dunbar and Berwick's a lovely town).

The first thing that has to happen before any of this, is for the SJFA to decide itself what it actually wants and they can't do that until they either hold an EGM or have their AGM.  Neither of those will happen before June and until then all they have is an opinion from clubs, some of whom want tier 5, some want tier 6, and some want nothing to do with the whole thing.  Until then, TJ doesn't have anything to place on the table, other than he wants tier 6 entry, which was only one of the three answers to the survey and for which he has no formal agreement from member clubs to negotiate on. 

He told clubs that was what he was going to do at the East meeting, he's not even met West clubs yet who were 45% against the Pyramid.  There are way more questions than he has answers for, he doesn't actually have any answers.

He wrote an email to the SFA Board asking for tier 6, they discussed it, they haven't yet communicated formally to anyone what their thoughts are.  That's it as it stands.

To answer the "what if..."  they wont get tier 6 or 7 entry in the East as a separate league IMO.