Junior football, what is the future?

[kenny131]

1 hour ago, energyzone said:

5 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Long term i'm looking for a name out there (maybe played the odd European game over the years) arriving in the LL or lower. Possibly some club that's got a long history and could get a crowd on a good day. A boardroom melt down were some dodgy director has ripped the place off and the club crashes through the leagues. And of course part of the deal is they find themselves stuck at Level 5/6.  Be too easy to say a Dundee/Dundee Utd although they might be candidates. And oh the spot in maybe the top two leagues going to say an Irvine Meadow or even better a Dunipace flying up the leagues.

I'm wondering in future, if a club does a Rangers (most likely Rangers tbh) and has to reform as a new club, would they have to start at the SOS or EOS league rather than in SPFL2?

If they applied the laws of the game it's start from the bottom

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, energyzone said:

5 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Long term i'm looking for a name out there (maybe played the odd European game over the years) arriving in the LL or lower. Possibly some club that's got a long history and could get a crowd on a good day. A boardroom melt down were some dodgy director has ripped the place off and the club crashes through the leagues. And of course part of the deal is they find themselves stuck at Level 5/6.  Be too easy to say a Dundee/Dundee Utd although they might be candidates. And oh the spot in maybe the top two leagues going to say an Irvine Meadow or even better a Dunipace flying up the leagues.

I'm wondering in future, if a club does a Rangers (most likely Rangers tbh) and has to reform as a new club, would they have to start at the SOS or EOS league rather than in SPFL2?

I'd imagine a big enough SPFL club would likely be voted in as club 42. I doubt that the SPFL have a fixed guideline for this situation so they can make it up as they see fit at the time.

[Ginaro]

8 hours ago, Truthteller said:

Let's see how long players put up with travelling to locations like Peebles, Coldstream, Eyemouth and Tweedmouth (England) on a regular basis to pump teams. Not exactly local, and let's not forget some people have to work on Saturday mornings.

Away from home and family for longer, can just imagine the family conversation, how did you get on today ?  Travelled for a couple of hours, played this team from the borders, won 10-1 , had a beer at their place and travelled home, another couple of hours.

Left home at 10am and got home at 7pm.  Never mind dear, I'm playing senior in the pyramid !!!!!!

Well for a club like Blackburn they won't be going to Kirriemuir (93 min) or Dundee  (71 min) next season, and they already go to Dunbar so it's just another half hour to Tweedmouth (85 minutes). In fact looking at Google Maps, Blackburn to Peebles takes the same time as going to Dunbar (53 minutes). 

With the amount of clubs joining the EoS it's unlikely and you would be playing all of those teams, and at least you'd know more than a couple of weeks in advance when your next longer distance fixture is...

Edited April 15, 2018 by Ginaro

[kefc]

1 minute ago, Tynieness said:

Would it be helpful if your club produced a pamphlet detailing both the pros and cons of joining a pyramid, bearing in mind that the annual AGM of the SJFA may well end up with the clubs rubber stamping the movement wholesale to a pyramid.   Or even have a meeting, I remember when I was involved at another club making myself available several Monday's in a row to discuss the pros/cons and looking to inform fans which was fairly successful. 

If the scenario is  that LRFC wait and move with the rest of Juniors then you are potentially looking at several years of playing in whatever tier before an opportunity even arises to get promoted out of the Lowland League where the possibilities of trips up North become a regular occurrance.

That is of course if your club  decides to wait and not do a Bonnyrigg etc and go sooner but that would of course required a very hastily arranged EGM for your club with the EOS AGM coming very soon.

But in essence there is a lot of confusion over the situation at most clubs and I include my former club on that, there was a lack of understanding about the whole thing at all levels.

Interesting times ahead but for me communication is vital.

Bang on, a presentation with pros and cons after some research then the findings distributed to your clubs members and support. You could argue that committees or office bearers not doing this are failing in their role, all avenues should be looked at where a club you are serving can either prosper or go into a demise. Once the information is provided then at least a decision can be made based on this.

This is a massive issue and has been for the past 12 month, to ignore it could be an act of folly.

A lack of communication and information can be directed at some clubs, a shame as both cost nothing other than time.

[Robert James]

5 minutes ago, Tynieness said:

Would it be helpful if your club produced a pamphlet detailing both the pros and cons of joining a pyramid, bearing in mind that the annual AGM of the SJFA may well end up with the clubs rubber stamping the movement wholesale to a pyramid.   Or even have a meeting, I remember when I was involved at another club making myself available several Monday's in a row to discuss the pros/cons and looking to inform fans which was fairly successful. 

If the scenario is  that LRFC wait and move with the rest of Juniors then you are potentially looking at several years of playing in whatever tier before an opportunity even arises to get promoted out of the Lowland League where the possibilities of trips up North become a regular occurrance.

That is of course if your club  decides to wait and not do a Bonnyrigg etc and go sooner but that would of course required a very hastily arranged EGM for your club with the EOS AGM coming very soon.

But in essence there is a lot of confusion over the situation at most clubs and I include my former club on that, there was a lack of understanding about the whole thing at all levels.

Interesting times ahead but for me communication is vital.

The implication here is that LRFC has not communicated with its members/fans. If that is true, it is very surprising, if not shocking.  Do it now, before the SJFA EGM.  

[lithgierose]

5 minutes ago, Tynieness said:

Would it be helpful if your club produced a pamphlet detailing both the pros and cons of joining a pyramid, bearing in mind that the annual AGM of the SJFA may well end up with the clubs rubber stamping the movement wholesale to a pyramid.   Or even have a meeting, I remember when I was involved at another club making myself available several Monday's in a row to discuss the pros/cons and looking to inform fans which was fairly successful. 

If the scenario is  that LRFC wait and move with the rest of Juniors then you are potentially looking at several years of playing in whatever tier before an opportunity even arises to get promoted out of the Lowland League where the possibilities of trips up North become a regular occurrance.

That is of course if your club  decides to wait and not do a Bonnyrigg etc and go sooner but that would of course required a very hastily arranged EGM for your club with the EOS AGM coming very soon.

But in essence there is a lot of confusion over the situation at most clubs and I include my former club on that, there was a lack of understanding about the whole thing at all levels.

Interesting times ahead but for me communication is vital.

Whats wrong with a club applying then see what the club members think.at least that way they will still have a choice to say thank you or no thanks .at this time.but it will be just wait till the AGM.when the boat has sailed.

[drs]

22 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

A large part of our support equate the pyramid to excessive travel. Indeed who wants to play Elgin away on a Tuesday evening cropped up yesterday.

That's a point I made at yesterdays game - has anyone actually looked at the travelling involved in the pyramid, particularly the EoS, and compared it to what clubs are doing this season. Sure Camelon are likely to lose games at Sauchie, Bo'ness and the Wee Rose but they are also losing a trip to Forfar and 3 trips to Dundee  and gaining some trips to Edinburgh.

A quest for Burnieman there methinks - travelling distance comparisons.

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, lithgierose said:

Whats wrong with a club applying then see what the club members think.at least that way they will still have a choice to say thank you or no thanks .at this time.but it will be just wait till the AGM.when the boat has sailed.

Agreed

 

[HTG]

6 minutes ago, drs said:

That's a point I made at yesterdays game - has anyone actually looked at the travelling involved in the pyramid, particularly the EoS, and compared it to what clubs are doing this season. Sure Camelon are likely to lose games at Sauchie, Bo'ness and the Wee Rose but they are also losing a trip to Forfar and 3 trips to Dundee  and gaining some trips to Edinburgh.

A quest for Burnieman there methinks - travelling distance comparisons.

I've looked at the comparison between Lowland League and Superleague next season assuming Kelty go up and Hawick go down. The additional travel from Prestonfield is an average 9 miles each way per away game over the season - including Annan, Dalbeattie and Gretna. That's less than 300 extra miles over a 9 month period. But aye, Elgin on a Tuesday because that happens to one single club twice a season every season ... not.

[Truthteller]

Have any of the clubs intending to leave consulted the most important people involved in this, namely the players ?

If players find it difficult either through work or family commitments to commit to playing in the EOSL or LL then that may create a problem.

[Burnie_man]

18 minutes ago, drs said:

A quest for Burnieman there methinks - travelling distance comparisons.

I think someone at the club did a comparison of this seasons travel v EoS (as it currently stand now) and it was hardly worth losing sleep over. Negligible.

Now, with the likelihood of there being two sections next season, it could end up less.

[HTG]

4 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

Have any of the clubs intending to leave consulted the most important people involved in this, namely the players ?

If players find it difficult either through work or family commitments to commit to playing in the EOSL or LL then that may create a problem.

They can get different players. There are a few out there. To confirm, in the East juniors clubs already travel significant distance. A shift into the pyramid makes next to no difference. 

Edited to add, players are miles from being the most important people in this. Most of them are transient and they move around as a matter of course.

Edited April 15, 2018 by HTG

[Burnie_man]

So there you go, we've just got some more fixtures. 

Now bear in mind we're not behind schedule and have four home games left, three of which are now going to be played in the space of 7 days, next Sat, then Wed, then Sat again.  The biggest of which (home to Fauldhouse) is midweek.  Little time to promote these and probably no chance for the club to sell hospitality/sponsorship.

Yet people wonder why clubs are utterly fed up of the way the Junior game is run and are getting the hell out. It's utter incompetence.

[Truthteller]

29 minutes ago, HTG said:

They can get different players. There are a few out there. To confirm, in the East juniors clubs already travel significant distance. A shift into the pyramid makes next to no difference. 

Edited to add, players are miles from being the most important people in this. Most of them are transient and they move around as a matter of course.

 

24 minutes ago, Tynieness said:

Spot on.  The research we done on difference in travel distances was next to nil.

As a sidenote ever one of our players was up for moving, players want to test themselves at as high a level as possible.

Like clubs, players will find their level.

 

29 minutes ago, HTG said:

players are miles from being the most important people in this

Strange statement HTG, It's the type and quality of players at the club who ultimately decide on what level of success the club achieves.

Nobody has yet answered the question, have the clubs consulted the players ?

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

Nobody has yet answered the question, have the clubs consulted the players ?

In our case, I believe so.

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, Tynieness said:

Would it be helpful if your club produced a pamphlet detailing both the pros and cons of joining a pyramid, bearing in mind that the annual AGM of the SJFA may well end up with the clubs rubber stamping the movement wholesale to a pyramid.   Or even have a meeting, I remember when I was involved at another club making myself available several Monday's in a row to discuss the pros/cons and looking to inform fans which was fairly successful. 

If the scenario is  that LRFC wait and move with the rest of Juniors then you are potentially looking at several years of playing in whatever tier before an opportunity even arises to get promoted out of the Lowland League where the possibilities of trips up North become a regular occurrance.

That is of course if your club  decides to wait and not do a Bonnyrigg etc and go sooner but that would of course required a very hastily arranged EGM for your club with the EOS AGM coming very soon.

But in essence there is a lot of confusion over the situation at most clubs and I include my former club on that, there was a lack of understanding about the whole thing at all levels.

Interesting times ahead but for me communication is vital.

Communication is vital - we don't communicate whatsoever with our supporters.

A tannoy announcement on fixtures.  Not every supporter uses social media or website. 

Our local paper recently announced JFK had been shot. So that is hardly a reliable source.

The loudest voice informing most is totally against change and fuelling the negativity.

52 minutes ago, drs said:

That's a point I made at yesterdays game - has anyone actually looked at the travelling involved in the pyramid, particularly the EoS, and compared it to what clubs are doing this season. Sure Camelon are likely to lose games at Sauchie, Bo'ness and the Wee Rose but they are also losing a trip to Forfar and 3 trips to Dundee  and gaining some trips to Edinburgh.

A quest for Burnieman there methinks - travelling distance comparisons.

See above if you don't engage and inform people they will listen to the loudest voice that informs them.

We are simply not engaging with people or canvassing support.

I'm against the whole concept but since engaging in discussion I have put aside my view and realise that we need to embrace and change.

 

[lithgierose]

The wifes dog agility shows start in a fortnight.thatl be that then.used to work it round the footbal.but I guess I will be spending more time with the wife.

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 hours ago, Truthteller said:

Let's see how long players put up with travelling to locations like Peebles, Coldstream, Eyemouth and Tweedmouth (England) on a regular basis to pump teams. Not exactly local, and let's not forget some people have to work on Saturday mornings.

Away from home and family for longer, can just imagine the family conversation, how did you get on today ?  Travelled for a couple of hours, played this team from the borders, won 10-1 , had a beer at their place and travelled home, another couple of hours.

Left home at 10am and got home at 7pm.  Never mind dear, I'm playing senior in the pyramid !!!!!!

There' no difference for camelon going to Eyemouth as forfar and carnoustie so stop talking pish

[Auld Heid]

1 minute ago, lithgierose said:

The wifes dog agility shows start in a fortnight.thatl be that then.used to work it round the footbal.but I guess I will be spending more time with the wife.

She will be devastated 

[parsforlife]

Strange statement HTG, It's the type and quality of players at the club who ultimately decide on what level of success the club achieves

There enough quality players willing to travel, clubs don't need to worry about the odd couple that can't.

Players are well used to traveling, they've done it for years before even playing 1st team football