Junior football, what is the future?

[ShahktarYerMaw]

*   First the GOOD NEWS (for some):
The SJFA questionnaire has confirmed that the majority, but certainly not all Junior clubs want to join the "current pyramid"
A substantial minority of other Junior clubs want to remain with the SJFA
The SFA is not seeking to 'close down' the SJFA
The extensive range of SFA financial and other benefits available to its Member clubs (see earlier post, not from me), will be extended to Junior clubs as/when they join the Pyramid.  
*   Now the NOT SO GOOD NEWS (for some):
The SFA will not allow a second Tier 5 feeder league for West clubs, now or next season
The SFA does however want a  West league asap, which could by adopting the West Super League en bloc as the 'senior feeder to the SLL, at Tier 6  
The SFA will never accept two Tier 6 leagues in the East. To do so would be insane
The SFA has no intention of 'demoting' the EoSL, and its existing member clubs would reject it
Some East Junior clubs will be elected to the EoSL for next season (numbers still speculative).
   * Now the BAD NEWS (for some )
The SFA will not licence Junior clubs who decide to remain in the Junior Leagues
The SFA will need to give SoSL clubs the chance to join a new West feeder league, but applications are unlikely from any clubs (except Threave  ?) before realigning the SoSL at Tier 7
The SFA will not agree to play-offs between 'senior' and 'junior' clubs for promotion to the SLL (nor to the HFL).
>>>>>>>
5 days to go until the EoSL & SoSL deadline for new clubs, closes.  Arguments will no doubt continue ,  but  will these make much if any, difference to the eventual outcome for 2018/19 ? We are where we are, and there is no perfect solution for all interested parties.
NB : The above are my personal views. 
 
 

The short summary of this is “chaos”.

You cannot be an SJFA Club in an SFA pyramid - one or the other.

If this progresses the SJFA should fold and let one national pyramid be set up and administered by the SFA. Easiest way.

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, archieb said:

Here's another idea:

Resurrect the idea of a Junior East+West Superduper League with 8+8 top teams from those two regions. There would be better justification for it to alongside the LL at Step 5 as the majority of clubs seem to want. After a season or two, the Superduper League and LL could possibly amalgamate and form either a LL East and a LL West, or LL Divs 1 and 2.
 

 

0% chance of the national ruling body (SFA) agreeing this idea !  

[glensmad]

The short summary of this is “chaos”.

You cannot be an SJFA Club in an SFA pyramid - one or the other.

If this progresses the SJFA should fold and let one national pyramid be set up and administered by the SFA. Easiest way.

The English pyramid has lots of different associations, all with their own governing bodies, but all ultimately under the FA banner.

[FairWeatherFan]

I know they don't have the money for it just now, but the SJFA has paid out solidarity payments during harsh winters in the past. If the SJFA is disbanded or merged into the SFA who takes on that responsibility if a club isn't licenced? Would it be the new Regions which could mean the payments differ widely, or does the SFA create a new associate class of membership that could cover such an eventuality.

[Che Dail]

13 hours ago, kefc said:

I dont know 100% but the LL want it as strong as possible for the benefit of tier 5 and so that the pyramid flows and clubs find their level to avoid possible mis-matches, more promotion places more than likely will be approved.

Now that the Juniors have committed to the pyramid, do you think that in these special circumstances the LL could be expanded for next season to 18 teams, with new places for Kelty, LTHV and Linlithgow Rose?

That really would be progress -  The LL would  gain 3 top clubs instead of 1.

Similarly a space could be found for Banks O Dee in the Highland League, one way or another.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Che Dail

[drs]

No.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Now that the Juniors have committed to the pyramid, do you think that in these special circumstances the LL could be expanded for next season to 18 teams, with new places for Kelty, LTHV and Linlithgow Rose?

That really would be progress -  The LL would  gain 3 top clubs instead of 1.

Similarly a space could be found for Banks O Dee in the Highland League, one way or another.

The SFA don't even want the Highland League to be 18 teams. Real progress would be for a proper West feeder for next year combined with the EoSFL and both their champions getting automatic promotion.

Best bet for change in the North in 2018 is Cove Rangers getting promoted.

[Che Dail]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The SFA don't even want the Highland League to be 18 teams. Real progress would be for a proper West feeder for next year combined with the EoSFL and both their champions getting automatic promotion.

Best bet for change in the North in 2018 is Cove Rangers getting promoted.

It would only need to be for 1 season, then revert to 16 thereafter with 4 down and 2 up (by that time Bonnyrigg and Auchinleck?)

Edited March 27, 2018 by Che Dail

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Che Dail said:

It would only need to be for 1 season, then revert to 16 thereafter with 4 down and 2 up... 

You're potentially getting 2 relegated this year already with Cowdenbeath & Kelty/LTHV/Licenced SoSFL Champion replacing them. You're also changing the goalposts rather late in the day and  randomly increasing the Eastern bias in the Lowland with no real need. Kelty might go up anyway, LTHV aren't licenced, for Linlithgow you might as well suggest Girvan on being a licenced Junior.

[Killiepiyo]

Bend or break in the winds of change n all that

[FairWeatherFan]

13 hours ago, archieb said:

I'm pretty sure the SJFA has already accepted in principle that the HL/LL boundary will be moved from the Tay to the Esk

Would it not have to be the SFA has accepted in principle to change the HL/LL boundary since they're the ones in charge of it? They might well do now, but they were quite happy to relegate Montrose in the Highland League in the first playoff and the number of Junior clubs effected is rather small.

I think the SFA seem to like having Aberdeen & Dundee in the Highland League area as a way to balance out the Glasgow dominated West region & Edinburgh dominated East region that are likely to evolve.

[newcastle broon]

40 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Now that the Juniors have committed to the pyramid, do you think that in these special circumstances the LL could be expanded for next season to 18 teams, with new places for Kelty, LTHV and Linlithgow Rose?

That really would be progress -  The LL would  gain 3 top clubs instead of 1.

Similarly a space could be found for Banks O Dee in the Highland League, one way or another.

A big NO from me.

Where would an extra 4 games fit into the fixture list ?

Why should Linlithgow go straight into the LL  ? 

[bendan]

1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

Now that the Juniors have committed to the pyramid, do you think that in these special circumstances the LL could be expanded for next season to 18 teams, with new places for Kelty, LTHV and Linlithgow Rose?

Not going to happen, and quite rightly so.

And the juniors haven't committed to the pyramid. Saying you want in at level 5 isn't committing to the pyramid.

[Che Dail]

23 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

A big NO from me.

Where would an extra 4 games fit into the fixture list ?

Why should Linlithgow go straight into the LL  ? 

Just floating an idea in response to kefc's point about SPFL and LL clubs wanting to improve the LL standard, and I'm thinking about the greater good overall - this would accelerate the process and clubs would find their right level quicker.

I'm merely suggesting Linlithgow as highest placed licensed club.

Instead, the final place could be by invitation to all non LL licenced clubs - if they all accept then they play off in a round robin including the LL club potentially being relegated, so it's a competition. 

Controversial, I know, but good for the league.

18 isn't ideal but the Highland League has managed.

Regardless of how things pan out, all licensed clubs should now sign the declaration  to commit to the pyramid system.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Che Dail

[Kilbowie Benches]

It’s all too late for the SJFA.

They can only fit in underneath a West Of Scotland Senior League once it’s set up.

[bendan]

Just now, Kilbowie Benches said:

It’s all too late for the SJFA.

They can only fit in underneath a West Of Scotland Senior League once it’s set up.

There effectively is a West league already. It's called the South of Scotland League.

[The Mantis]

1 hour ago, glensmad said:

 

The English pyramid has lots of different associations, all with their own governing bodies, but all ultimately under the FA banner.

 

Not only that, the LL, HL, SOSL and EOSL are already separate bodies, each with their own board, sponsors etc. That’s why promotion/relegation are issues that are negotiated between different leagues and voted on at AGMs. An amazing number of posters on here still haven’t grasped this.

[Goalie Hamish]

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

The league will resemble what you have now in the Juniors. Don't kid yourself that the SJFA are going to lead you into the Pyramid intact.

[Deeside Dynamo]

8 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

Not only that, the LL, HL, SOSL and EOSL are already separate bodies, each with their own board, sponsors etc. That’s why promotion/relegation are issues that are negotiated between different leagues and voted on at AGMs. An amazing number of posters on here still haven’t grasped this.

Indeed and, as such, the entry of the juniors to the pyramid may not be as straight forward as some may think or want. Given that the juniors have been reluctant for a number of years to join,  some clubs within these leagues may be obstinate if they feel that the new clubs are going to try and throw their weight around. 

[TFW]

The one thing that really does worry me will be how some folk see attaching themselves to some of the bigger clubs as a way to get very good and cheap kudos by pumping money into them. We've seen it before with numerous Junior clubs, and the English game is littered with them, and the dash for glory will inevitably lead to some clubs overstretching.

Eventually, if promotion is only going to be available on the status of the top club's ground (as in England where they have a lusicrous system) there's either a hell of a lot of work needing to be carried out on a lot of grounds or the leagues could become places of stagnation.

Think it's a step forward. Look forward to the debate as any proposals come forward.