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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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On 14/02/2018 at 11:09, Jambo'ness said:

Exactly.  It's not compulsory in the English pyramid.  This whole 'adventure' should be about finding the right fit for all clubs, regardless of size.  Forcing clubs to go further than they wish, or can afford, would be counter-productive.

Promotion is currently compulsory in England, down to step 8.   Cinderford Town wanted to remain in the Southern League Division One  (West) and refused promotion to the Southern Premier. They were given a choice, accept promotion, or by relegated to tier 9 (Western League).  They accepted promotion.

Also, next season compulsory promotion is being  extended by the FA to step 9, much to the regret of most Northern League clubs.

However I agree that Scotland isn't England, and given  the smaller size/level of support,  and location of Scottish non-league clubs, and I therefore agree those BELOW the HFL and SLL should be permitted to refuse promotion to Tier 5.  However, this raises the question as to whether or not, clubs declining promotion at Tier 6 (or below, if the Juniors join the pyramid) should  be excluded from the SFA cup for the following season, or (even) have their licence revoked/suspended ?   

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1 hour ago, Robert James said:

Promotion is currently compulsory in England, down to step 8.   Cinderford Town wanted to remain in the Southern League Division One  (West) and refused promotion to the Southern Premier. They were given a choice, accept promotion, or by relegated to tier 9 (Western League).  They accepted promotion.

Also, next season compulsory promotion is being  extended by the FA to step 9, much to the regret of most Northern League clubs.

However I agree that Scotland isn't England, and given  the smaller size/level of support,  and location of Scottish non-league clubs, and I therefore agree those BELOW the HFL and SLL should be permitted to refuse promotion to Tier 5.  However, this raises the question as to whether or not, clubs declining promotion at Tier 6 (or below, if the Juniors join the pyramid) should  be excluded from the SFA cup for the following season, or (even) have their licence revoked/suspended ?   

There should be a consequence attached to not moving up - if only to act as an incentive to get your house in order. Does LTHV have a massive budget in comparison to other eos clubs? 

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1 hour ago, Robert James said:

However, this raises the question as to whether or not, clubs declining promotion at Tier 6 (or below, if the Juniors join the pyramid) should  be excluded from the SFA cup for the following season, or (even) have their licence revoked/suspended ?   

It's called The Scottish Cup.

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The promoters of the much vaunted "Pyramid" the consistent SFA  demonstrate again their total inability to organise a pi*up in a brewery.  Join them if you want, but know the devil you are about to sup with.

They had some issues on the table, which didn't disappear with Regan's departure. 

1. Scotland Manager. Big Eck being a long time pal of short arse Macrae gets the mate's job. 

Alex McLeish is the new Scotland manager.
"We went through a rigorous process," said a spokesman for the SFA. "We spoke to Michael O'Neill, Malky Mackay, the Krankies & that woman who calls her kids disgusting for not flushing the toilet, but Alex was always our first choice."
 
2. National Stadium Limited going bust.  Despite £40 million of public money being put in.
 
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-plan-buy-hampden-deal-12067172  The right price is £1, but let's make it £2 million if we can avoid having to leave Glasgow and move games to that foreign country east of Harthill.
 
3. Get a new chief Exec. Needs to be better than Regan and therefore doesn't challenge the status quo, or the salaries of top staff.
Preferably someone with Rangers connections. Ally must be in with a shout, and he's funny on the tele, or used to be.
 
4. Project Brave after the Dutch guy has jumped, McClair pissed off even quicker, now Malky Mackay (Not the one who is a director of The National Stadium Limited, that's Malky's daddy) will talk the talk to ensure he retains his bloated salary.  Talk, loads of, action, sod all.
 
5. Operations Director gone missing, can be found on a golf course somewhere in Scotland. He gets a mention in this....https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/scottish-fa-statement-on-ceo/?rid=13929
 
Why are these things important to junior clubs? Because these are just the tip of the iceberg that is the back stabbing chaos that is the SFA. Join if you must, but beware that this corrupted beast will have to change and you will have to change too. Sometimes the devil you know........
 
As for the William Hill Scottish Cup, how does the Moneylaundering Scottish Cup sound? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43124258
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The promoters of the much vaunted "Pyramid" the consistent SFA  demonstrate again their total inability to organise a pi*up in a brewery.  Join them if you want, but know the devil you are about to sup with.
They had some issues on the table, which didn't disappear with Regan's departure. 
1. Scotland Manager. Big Eck being a long time pal of short arse Macrae gets the mate's job. 
Paddy Power [emoji818]@paddypower Alex McLeish is the new Scotland manager.
"We went through a rigorous process," said a spokesman for the SFA. "We spoke to Michael O'Neill, Malky Mackay, the Krankies & that woman who calls her kids disgusting for not flushing the toilet, but Alex was always our first choice."   2. National Stadium Limited going bust.  Despite £40 million of public money being put in.   https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-plan-buy-hampden-deal-12067172  The right price is £1, but let's make it £2 million if we can avoid having to leave Glasgow and move games to that foreign country east of Harthill.   3. Get a new chief Exec. Needs to be better than Regan and therefore doesn't challenge the status quo, or the salaries of top staff. Preferably someone with Rangers connections. Ally must be in with a shout, and he's funny on the tele, or used to be.   4. Project Brave after the Dutch guy has jumped, McClair pissed off even quicker, now Malky Mackay (Not the one who is a director of The National Stadium Limited, that's Malky's daddy) will talk the talk to ensure he retains his bloated salary.  Talk, loads of, action, sod all.   5. Operations Director gone missing, can be found on a golf course somewhere in Scotland. He gets a mention in this....https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/scottish-fa-statement-on-ceo/?rid=13929   Why are these things important to junior clubs? Because these are just the tip of the iceberg that is the back stabbing chaos that is the SFA. Join if you must, but beware that this corrupted beast will have to change and you will have to change too. Sometimes the devil you know........   As for the William Hill Scottish Cup, how does the Moneylaundering Scottish Cup sound? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43124258


If your going to go off on a rant about the SFA, you don't need to go so far off in too la la land, there's enough thing here in reality you could have gone with. The unfortunate reality is with all its faults the SFA still outshines the SJFA by a mile.
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On 22/02/2018 at 22:50, The Mantis said:

Yeah but, yeah but. It’s still The Scottish Cup :lol:

A "score draw" about the Cup title,  but does this minutia matter ?  No.

The real issue is that the current 'consultation' with Junior clubs about "pyramid options" closes this week.  Does anyone have an advanced feedback or rumours  ?

Also, have I missed any feedback from Clydebank's alleged ballot of members  about  the clubs future in the  juniors or seniors ?

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Rumours and I must stress that word, “rumours” Iv heard recently -

-Proposals as regards to SJFA clubs going in at LL level or on par with tier 6 will be thrown in the sea without much debate.

-If there was enough West clubs Junior or Ams came forward to join tier 6 then EOS and SOS could be willing to help run and start a new WOS League at tier 6 depending on the interest.

-Junior clubs participation in senior Scottish Cup could be stopped. Money going out this comp to unlicensed Junior clubs isn’t looked upon too well just now by SPFL Clubs.

-The Amateur association could be invited to come in at tier 7 and filter their regional leagues in below, where that would leave the SJFA clubs I don’t know.

Edited by kefc
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50 minutes ago, kefc said:

Rumours and I must stress that word, “rumours” Iv heard recently -

-Proposals as regards to SJFA clubs going in at LL level or on par with tier 6 will be thrown in the sea without much debate.

-If there was enough West clubs came forward to join tier 6 then EOS and SOS could be willing to help run and start a new WOS League at tier 6 depending on the interest.

-Junior clubs participation in senior Scottish Cup could be stopped. Money going out this comp to unlicensed Junior clubs isn’t looked upon too well just now.

-The Amatuer association could be invited to come in at tier 7 and filter their regional leagues in below, where that would leave the SJFA I don’t know.

Juniors need to filter in at tier 6 either through the East of Scotland or the new West of Scotland league depending on geography. Not ideal but I can't really see any other way around it. And if the amateur leagues are involved below that then it's probably finished for them as the bottom tier could be 8/9, I don't even know!

Edited by edinabear
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2 hours ago, kefc said:

Rumours and I must stress that word, “rumours” Iv heard recently -

-Proposals as regards to SJFA clubs going in at LL level or on par with tier 6 will be thrown in the sea without much debate.

-If there was enough West clubs Junior or Ams came forward to join tier 6 then EOS and SOS could be willing to help run and start a new WOS League at tier 6 depending on the interest.

-Junior clubs participation in senior Scottish Cup could be stopped. Money going out this comp to unlicensed Junior clubs isn’t looked upon too well just now by SPFL Clubs.

-The Amatuer association could be invited to come in at tier 7 and filter their regional leagues in below, where that would leave the SJFA clubs I don’t know.

At a rough guess, this sounds like an eos meeting. No word on who is looking to join?

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19 hours ago, Robert James said:

The real issue is that the current 'consultation' with Junior clubs about "pyramid options" closes this week.  Does anyone have an advanced feedback or rumours  ?

 

It could hardly be described as a consultation, it's barely even a questionnaire as the answers are largely pre-determined:

Should Junior Football Join the Pyramid System?

NO  (Junior Football wants to retain its independence, it says so in the paper you issued.  Junior clubs should join though, if they want to)

What option do you prefer?

B  (because Option A is a complete non-starter.  But 'B' is almost there anyway as there already is an East feeder, so only a West feeder is required)

Does your club meet entry level Club Licensing Criteria

NO  (Of course it doesn't - But every club can work towards it)

These questions follow a clumsily worded paper laced with negative bias, leading inevitably to an outcome like,  "The pyramid is still flawed, members don't want it, members aren't ready for licensing". And no progress is made.

 

Meanwhile, on the 'rumours',  if the Fife club interest is confirmed that makes it 4 Junior clubs planning on making the switch plus 2 Amateur clubs interested and possibly the return to the EoS by 2 former member clubs in the Borders - looks like 2 leagues will be possible.

 

 

 

Edited by Che Dail
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22 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

It could hardly be described as a consultation, it's barely even a questionnaire as the answers are largely pre-determined:

Should Junior Football Join the Pyramid System?

NO  (Junior Football wants to retain its independence, it says so in the paper you issued.  Junior clubs should join though, if they want to)

What option do you prefer?

B  (because Option A is a complete non-starter.  But 'B' is almost there anyway as there already is an East feeder, so only a West feeder is required)

Does your club meet entry level Club Licensing Criteria

NO  (Of course it doesn't - But every club can work towards it)

These questions follow a clumsily worded paper laced with negative bias, leading inevitably to an outcome like,  "The pyramid is still flawed, members don't want it, members aren't ready for licensing". And no progress is made.

 

Meanwhile, on the 'rumours',  if the Fife club interest is confirmed that makes it 4 Junior clubs planning on making the switch plus 2 Amateur clubs interested and possibly the return to the EoS by 2 former member clubs in the Borders - looks like 2 leagues will be possible.

 

 

 

Do you have any names of these clubs rumoured to be joining the East?

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3 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Do you have any names of these clubs rumoured to be joining the East?

I do - but it's for the clubs to say if they want to go public at this point.

I know there was a Fife club interested this time last year, they might be revisiting it.

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6 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Hearing anither Fife Junior club have made serious enquiries about East of Scotland League membership.

If it was Hill of Beath as they miss their derby with Kelty as the high point of their season in a Bo'ness vs Lithgae sort of way it could create an interesting dynamic in the Cowdenbeath area in the years ahead if Cowdenbeath get relegated this season.

If Lothian Thistle get their club licence as Kelty Hearts appear to believe is happening in a few weeks (they just installed cover for 120 spectators to get their ground up to the required standard) and the number of promotion places into the Lowland League each season gets increased as is rumoured to be happening, there is a lot less danger of a logjam of top ex-junior clubs developing at the top of the EoS: 

Better to be one of the top junior clubs that gets in early than wait until the LL has flushed out all the substandard Borders and Galloway teams it launched with and the EoS has to add a second division again, if a club is going to make the switch.

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7 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Hearing anither Fife Junior club have made serious enquiries about East of Scotland League membership.

Can only imagine it would be St Andrews, Recently advertised for a part time under 19s coach ,

a well run club who would be a good addition if it is them . At present they have to travel to Haddington,Dunbar etc so wouldnt kill them to play games in the borders.

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