Junior football, what is the future?

[Hoofhearted]

4 hours ago, drs said:

I did and so did plenty of others on here, the likes of Haddington were making noises a couple of years ago. Dalkeith have now effectively jumped over every Super League team in the East.

Change is coming fast - its clear that its the clubs who will have to lead this change at Junior level and lead themselves into the future rather than wait for guidance from the SJFA or East Region. If the likes of Bo'ness and Bonnyrigg have any sort of vision for the future of their clubs then their applications for the EOS will be in the post right now. Sadly too many committees appear stuck in the past and unwilling to embrace the future.

 

DRS fixed it for you -  Dalkeith have now effectively jumped over every Super League team in the East  AND WEST. 

 

[Garret Deasy]

3 hours ago, drs said:

I did and so did plenty of others on here, the likes of Haddington were making noises a couple of years ago. Dalkeith have now effectively jumped over every Super League team in the East.

Change is coming fast - its clear that its the clubs who will have to lead this change at Junior level and lead themselves into the future rather than wait for guidance from the SJFA or East Region. If the likes of Bo'ness and Bonnyrigg have any sort of vision for the future of their clubs then their applications for the EOS will be in the post right now. Sadly too many committees appear stuck in the past and unwilling to embrace the future.

Clubs stay junior for a number of reasons. Some lack ambition or in some cases just couldn't cope with having to fill in a form.  Others because they want to be big time, reasons are varied on this one. To say Dalkeith has jumped over anyone is just too simplistic. Close ties with the Council and the whole 'big picture' scenario from the SFA  has built up over a period. Also committee members who can see the poor and even inadequate support from the junior hierarchy over many years. 

The junior game in reality is run by the west region, no matter what gloss you can put on it.

So with change being imposed on the junior game whether it likes it or not (and it does NOT like it), especially as clubs depart  usually in frustration, it encourages us to question again the whole setup and whether it is 'fit for purpose'.

At the heart of it is the Secretary. The role is ....well who really know, is it one that reflects what clubs want, or is it one that leads the clubs to a better place?

Tom Johnston won't be there forever. If you look at what he does it falls into a number of areas.

1. The admin side. Registering players, dealing with disciplinary issues, organising cup draws as required etc. Definitely not rocket science. 

2. The blazer role. Sitting on the board of the SFA, going to international games home and away all expenses paid (in addition to the brown envelope for the inconvenience), sitting on another couple of boards as the SFA rep. Taking on the shit jobs on behalf of the SFA such as approving Green (The Rangers) as a fit and proper person. Oh yes and attending the annual junior internationals home and away.

3. The development of the game. The future of the game.

When TJ retires, no reason why we can't spilt the job.

1. The admin part can be carried out a couple of days/week. Especially with email, mobile phones etc.

2. The Blazer roles. The only reason for someone from the sjfa to be on the SFA should be on a non exce role, to just ensure they keep abreast of any changes that may effect the junior game. As for getting on the blazer and tie, just share it round club officials.

3. Development. Someone with solid business and management skills to get out there talking to clubs. finding out what is really needed. But understanding and respecting the different culture and traditions of the junior game so it is protected and preserved. And to develop plans that make the junior game stronger and the clubs more sustainable.  There are many people in clubs with goodwill towards the junior game, keen to help but I have heard the statement that joining a committee would only validate the incompetence that is there.

Led by someone who can go from sorting out the constitution to making the game more attractive to supporters, players and committees alike. Sponsors will then come.

Someone experienced at this type of role could spend 3 days a week on this development.  Leading change is what it is about and taking the clubs with him or her.

Many on existing committees will see this change (any change) as a threat.  But we can't have the same old, same old being presented as a potentially successful future. We know it is lies. WE know it is not working. The clubs say so.

 

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Brown envelope for inconvenience

Attending the annual junior internationals home and away

He attends Scotland full Internationals as a member of the SFA Blazerati.   I once shared a lift with him in a hotel in Minsk in 2005, oh the fun to be had if it happens in future!

[HTG]

1 hour ago, Hoofhearted said:

 

DRS fixed it for you -  Dalkeith have now effectively jumped over every Super League team in the East  AND WEST. 

 

Correct. Some clubs will dither furiously about this and find that tier 6 isn't available to them. You'll have a raft of superleague clubs at tier 7 because nobody ever sat down and organised this thing properly. 

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, HTG said:

Correct. Some clubs will dither furiously about this and find that tier 6 isn't available to them. You'll have a raft of superleague clubs at tier 7 because nobody ever sat down and organised this thing properly. 

That's no Dalkeith's fault though. A wee bit stubbornness on other clubs part, there have been ample opportunities for clubs to do a Dalkeith or Kelty now, it's not as if it's surprising. 

[lithgierose]

Or took to long to bring it to their members for a vote.

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

I live in Dalkeith and have sadly been solidly part of the ambivalence towards the football team part of the town.

The main reason for this on my part is lack of fixture lists. I'm generally going to commit to something else on a Saturday rather than wait and see if there happens to be a game in town. And if I do find I have a floating Saturday then I have seven teams playing in the county, not to mention Edinburgh on the doorstep, so I'll take my pick.

At the moment there is only one Dalkeith home game scheduled, while the EOSFL has fixtures planned through to end of April. I think having a fixture schedule in place will be really positive locally, and definitely in regard to the bookings for the wee hospitality cabin.

I'm not saying I'll become a super fan overnight, but I do expect I'll make more than my 2-3 games per season if I have something to plan towards.

I wish them a lot of luck. For them to jump up the pyramid like these before the juniors will eventually move en masse is I think a smart move. Time will tell if that advantage lasts!!

[HTG]

2 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

That's no Dalkeith's fault though. A wee bit stubbornness on other clubs part, there have been ample opportunities for clubs to do a Dalkeith or Kelty now, it's not as if it's surprising. 

Absolutely - fair play to them. The repeatable point on here is that anyone with half a brain could structure this and get it sorted. But dithering and hand wringing will mostly be the order of the day. 

[ian44wood]

1 hour ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

I live in Dalkeith and have sadly been solidly part of the ambivalence towards the football team part of the town.

The main reason for this on my part is lack of fixture lists. I'm generally going to commit to something else on a Saturday rather than wait and see if there happens to be a game in town. And if I do find I have a floating Saturday then I have seven teams playing in the county, not to mention Edinburgh on the doorstep, so I'll take my pick.

At the moment there is only one Dalkeith home game scheduled, while the EOSFL has fixtures planned through to end of April. I think having a fixture schedule in place will be really positive locally, and definitely in regard to the bookings for the wee hospitality cabin.

I'm not saying I'll become a super fan overnight, but I do expect I'll make more than my 2-3 games per season if I have something to plan towards.

I wish them a lot of luck. For them to jump up the pyramid like these before the juniors will eventually move en masse is I think a smart move. Time will tell if that advantage lasts!!
 

I think the  hospitality cabin is for the away teams committee and home sponsors at half time. 

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

I think the  hospitality cabin is for the away teams committee and home sponsors at half time. 

Yeah that's the point. The home sponsors. Instead of scrambling around with a week or so of notice the club can market sponsorship weeks in advance. It's a big difference.

[Goalie Hamish]

9 hours ago, RabidAl said:

I would think that any change in the west will have to be lead by the clubs, but it might have to be in the form of working around/within the current pyramid structure since there seems to be no desire with the game's administrators to make any change. 

It might take a clutch of west juniors and others to approach the South of Scotland League about the possibility of establishing a north division within the SoSFL. 

This would allow the SoSFL to carry on with its traditional district division in the south, whilst the west-central juniors and others would have a division to play in that is more local to them.  It would suit everyone in terms of lower travel costs and more even level of competition, and would not require any upheaval at all of the pyramid.  Each of the north and south divisions could have their respective trophies for their winners, with the winners of each playing off to progress to the Lowland League play off with the EoSFL winners. 

In time, the north division could evolve into a West of Scotland League if more clubs moved across. 

 

In the east, I thought a move from Bo'ness to the EoSFL was a certainty this year, given the statement that they put out last April - below:

https://www.bonessunited.co.uk/the-future-is-bright/

The South of Scotland League having a North Division might actually work, a West of Scotland League by the back door.

[The Mantis]

6 hours ago, Garret Deasy said:

Tom Johnston won't be there forever. If you look at what he does it falls into a number of areas.

He's not that old though, is he? I remember seeing him interviewed somewhere and he was younger than I had imagined.

[The Mantis]

22 hours ago, Zen Archer said:

What a fucking Barnet.

This man was responsible for Benni McCarthy turning out in a Whitehill strip so his barnet's fine by me. Plus he's kicked a few Spartans players into orbit over the years.

[parkcircus]

Having looked at the travel distances West teams would only be traveling 100 miles more to join the EoS rather than the SoS, with better roads to the east it works out the same travel time, wonder if a west team might turn up in the EoS, the central teams would have about half the travel time as Ayrshire teams 

[Hillonearth]

On 1/11/2018 at 22:10, Zen Archer said:

What a fucking Barnet.

 

[Garret Deasy]

4 hours ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

I live in Dalkeith and have sadly been solidly part of the ambivalence towards the football team part of the town.

The main reason for this on my part is lack of fixture lists. I'm generally going to commit to something else on a Saturday rather than wait and see if there happens to be a game in town. And if I do find I have a floating Saturday then I have seven teams playing in the county, not to mention Edinburgh on the doorstep, so I'll take my pick.

At the moment there is only one Dalkeith home game scheduled, while the EOSFL has fixtures planned through to end of April. I think having a fixture schedule in place will be really positive locally, and definitely in regard to the bookings for the wee hospitality cabin.

I'm not saying I'll become a super fan overnight, but I do expect I'll make more than my 2-3 games per season if I have something to plan towards.

I wish them a lot of luck. For them to jump up the pyramid like these before the juniors will eventually move en masse is I think a smart move. Time will tell if that advantage lasts!!
 

Excellent to hear from someone not a Pie & Bovril keyboard jock, nor a die hard fan. Just someone who wants to enjoy a decent game of football locally. The very people the junior hierarchy don't bother with. 

Fixture lists can be created at the start of the season (they already have the software to do it but there is a lack of willingness to use it!) results in paying someone £15k per annum to indulge them in forever fiddling with fixtures, next batch released for the next couple of weeks decided in secret and then slipped into the public domain quietly. 

What a total and complete waste of money. All because someone can't use technology or prefers it the way it is. Everything is in secret. The powers that be seemed to get annoyed for some reason when people find out w.hat they are getting up to. Time to get people  like that punted no matter the number of years "service" they have given.

These people are NOT acting for the good of the game.

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Garret Deasy

[theshed]

What's happening here is so called lesser teams are seeing an opportunity to leap frog bigger teams and get a head start on them , dalkeith couldn't lace boness and linlithgow boots normally in the juniors , instead they're taking the opportunity to leap frog the bigger east junior teams and also getting away from a shambolic ran level of football , for doing this I wish them all the best , haddington will be next,

[RabidAl]

13 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

The South of Scotland League having a North Division might actually work, a West of Scotland League by the back door.

Just seems like it would suit everyone to have separate divisions if there was enough interest from clubs in the 'north' - a Clyde division and a Solway division, the winners playing off to be the official South of Scotland League champions and going forward to the Lowland League play off.  It shouldn't mean any real change to the existing pyramid structure.

I think it would take at least 6 hardy pioneers from the west-central area to join Bonnyton - 7 teams playing each other four times would give a 24-game season in a Clyde division; the remaining 14 or 15 teams in the Solway division could play each other twice for a 26- or 28-game season. 

 

In the north, I wonder if it would take something similar - an approach to the Highland League of a half-dozen interested clubs, who offer to join the bottom 2 HL clubs in an (initially unlicenced) 8-team HL2, again playing each other 4 times for a 28-game season, with promotion to the (16 team) HL for any licenced HL2 winners, and promotion to the HL2 from the winners of the north juniors and/or North Caledonian League winners.

Someone being relegated from the SPFL to the Highland League might have forced change, as having 19 teams to cater for would surely force them to change their structure and open up the north region; however, this seems unlikely for the time being.  The other possibility of a HL team being promoted to the SPFL might not produce any real change in opening up the north of the pyramid, as (I assume) they would just take in Banks o' Dee as club 18. 

[stanley]

I don't agree with the idea of the junior champions being involved in a playoff for the Lowland League.  If they aren't part of the system then they shouldn't be involved in the playoffs at all.  I want the seniors/juniors to be part of a fully integrated system and giving the East/West junior champions a place in the playoffs does nothing to achieve that IMO.  I'd say it possibly even reduces the chance of integration in the future.

I think the best way forward would be to created a Lowland League Division One East/West and invite juniors/EoS/SoS/amateur clubs to apply to it.  You could start with ten clubs in each initially and hopefully it would grow over time.  It might be difficult to find enough teams right now for the leagues (for the West especially).  You could also make it so that the teams have a time limit (maybe a couple of seasons and they'd have to show when they applied that they could realistically achieve it in that timeframe) in which they have to become licensed or they will be relegated from the league.

You then push the EoS and SoS down to level seven of the pyramid and they remain as leagues that don't require a licence.  Many of the current EoS and SoS clubs would remain in those leagues.  There would then be promotion/relegation between the leagues (if clubs get a licence).  Longer term, you'd be looking to add more leagues at level seven to cover more regional areas than simply the East/South.  Potentially three or four divisions at that level if the juniors were to get involved.

You could potentially have:

Lowland League East: Kelty, Dalkeith, Preston, Coldstream, Burntisland plus five others (possibly LTHV if they get round to doing more work for their license).

Lowland League West: Threave, St. Cuthbert, Newton Stewart, Glasgow Uni, Clydebank plus five others (probably including Bonnyton).

Not sure the SoS clubs would go for it although it being a west league may encourage them more.  I've left out Linlithgow and Girvan from the leagues as they don't appear to have shown any interest so far.  It may be difficult to find ten clubs for each but the formation of the leagues may encourage a few clubs to go for it.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by stanley

[8MileBU]

What a fucking Barnet.

 

 

 

 

Dreadful effort, I know! [emoji1]