Garret Deasy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Thanks Che. A good read. Nothing new there. This list could have been put together 10 years ago. And do tell me how is any club going to work their way through that lot to work out which ones are the useless plonkers (can provide a list of these if required) and which can genuinely help. Tell me in 5 years time how you got on. Suspect just part of the attempts to respond to the Scottish Government's requirement to get the SFA to grow up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Some good points but you paint a picture of corruption greed on a grand scale. Most club Committee men I know would probably be divorced if their wives found out just how much money they're putting into their clubs to keep them afloat. No doubt there have been and still are some chancers out there but you would hope they are few and far between. What do we do, subject every person on or who wants to join a Committee to a disclosure check to determine their suitability. Maybe not a bad idea!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Unlikely possibilities regarding the future shape of national non-league: 1) Half-a-dozen or so juniors and others from the west-central area simultaneously apply to join the South of Scotland League; SoSFL decide to admit them all on the basis that the league would then have the numbers to divide into 2 divisions - the 'original' south district that would keep their regular participants happy, and a north district for the west-central newbies who would be happy playing within their own locale: a West of Scotland division by default. The winners of the north and south divisions would play off for the right to face the EoSFL winners and promotion to the Lowland League. 2) The Lowland League as it is divides into east and west divisions of 8 (Stirling Uni and East Stirlingshire could happily play in a west division); the top 8 of the Highland League also form a top division in their region. The 3 regions (west LL, east LL and Highland) make up a regional-national conference of 24 teams as a step into/out of the national set up. Teams play those within their own division both home and away (14 games), and those in the other divisions either home or away ( a further 16 games). It would mean only 4 long away trips to the highlands each season for those in the 2 lowlands conferences, but would mean 8 long away trips each season for those in the highland conference. The remaining 10 Highland League sides would be supplemented by new members as the pyramid in the north began to open up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, RabidAl said: Unlikely possibilities regarding the future shape of national non-league: 1) Half-a-dozen or so juniors and others from the west-central area simultaneously apply to join the South of Scotland League; SoSFL decide to admit them all on the basis that the league would then have the numbers to divide into 2 divisions - the 'original' south district that would keep their regular participants happy, and a north district for the west-central newbies who would be happy playing within their own locale: a West of Scotland division by default. The winners of the north and south divisions would play off for the right to face the EoSFL winners and promotion to the Lowland League. 2) The Lowland League as it is divides into east and west divisions of 8 (Stirling Uni and East Stirlingshire could happily play in a west division); the top 8 of the Highland League also form a top division in their region. The 3 regions (west LL, east LL and Highland) make up a regional-national conference of 24 teams as a step into/out of the national set up. Teams play those within their own division both home and away (14 games), and those in the other divisions either home or away ( a further 16 games). It would mean only 4 long away trips to the highlands each season for those in the 2 lowlands conferences, but would mean 8 long away trips each season for those in the highland conference. The remaining 10 Highland League sides would be supplemented by new members as the pyramid in the north began to open up. I wish people would forget lowland league west it isn' happening nor should it. Junior clubs should come in at the. What right do Clydebank or auchinlecall have to jump over burnt island or preston who have licences. Get it into your heads juniors are t6 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry's Corner Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I wish people would forget lowland league west it isn' happening nor should it. Junior clubs should come in at the. What right do Clydebank or auchinlecall have to jump over burnt island or preston who have licences. Get it into your heads juniors are t6 Auchinlecall ? Is that place in the imaginary cloud that you're skooting about on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Harry's Corner said: 1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said: I wish people would forget lowland league west it isn' happening nor should it. Junior clubs should come in at the. What right do Clydebank or auchinlecall have to jump over burnt island or preston who have licences. Get it into your heads juniors are t6 Auchinlecall ? Is that place in the imaginary cloud that you're skooting about on? Predicted text. I'mean afraid I'm the common sense here why should west clubs come in and jump the queue. It is ludicrous to think that would happen. The fact that all you can pick up on is a mistake shows what an idiot you are and just looking to shit stir. Scumbag mentality which is why the country is the mess its in. Edited January 9, 2018 by AlanCamelonfan -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry's Corner Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Predicted text. I'mean afraid I'm the common sense here why should west clubs come in and jump the queue. It is ludicrous to think that would happen. The fact that all you can pick up on is a mistake shows what an idiot you are and just looking to shit stir. Scumbag mentality which is why the country is the mess its in. The Juniors in the west isn't really in a mess its the sjfa that completes it my friend. You're correct about the West and entitlement and i agree with you. I think the sjfa should really take all sides on board when making their next move. Schucks I get called an idiot all the time lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said: Predicted text. I'mean afraid I'm the common sense here why should west clubs come in and jump the queue. It is ludicrous to think that would happen. The fact that all you can pick up on is a mistake shows what an idiot you are and just looking to shit stir. Scumbag mentality which is why the country is the mess its in. There is no queue in the west as there is no queue at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: There is no queue in the west as there is no queue at all. Yes but it should be created at t6 and not jump to t5 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said: Yes but it should be created at t6 and not jump to t5 If any expansion was open to teams currently at tier 6 I don't get the problem. Are there enough teams at tier 6 to fill a West expansion? YES/NO . I think the answer is no so an expansion at tier 5 could legitimately include teams from outwith without too many knickers being in a twist. Edited January 9, 2018 by cmontheloknow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: If any expansion was open to teams currently at tier 6 I don't get the problem. Are there enough teams at tier 6 to fill a West expansion? YES/NO . I think the answer is no so an expansion at tier 5 could legitimately include teams from outwith without too many knickers being in a twist. Girvan is the only west region junior club that could enter tier 5 anyway if there was an expansion. Better to put it at tier 6, let clubs get licenced and re-evaluate if a large amount of clubs do so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: If any expansion was open to teams currently at tier 6 I don't get the problem. Are there enough teams at tier 6 to fill a West expansion? YES/NO . I think the answer is no so an expansion at tier 5 could legitimately include teams from outwith without too many knickers being in a twist. If you were creatingredients something it would be athe t6. As pars said only Girvan could go in at t5 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said: If you were creatingredients something it would be athe t6. As pars said only Girvan could go in at t5 Please switch off your predictive text, or else read it through before sending. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 This crops up as a topic now and again, but these are the admission prices in the LL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/9/2018 at 11:26, AlanCamelonfan said: I wish people would forget lowland league west it isn' happening nor should it. Junior clubs should come in at the. What right do Clydebank or auchinlecall have to jump over burnt island or preston who have licences. Get it into your heads juniors are t6 Sorry chief, was just floating a couple of ideas. The 8-team LL west that I mentioned is possible right now with a straight-forward east-west split of the teams, so no-one would be jumped over in that case: any west feeder (e.g. the SoSFL) would fit in below, at tier 6. Also, there has been a report that the LL was to restructure along regional lines to accommodate colts teams, which may also have opened it up to applications in the west; again, no-one would be jumping Preston, Burntisland, Coldstream or Kelty since they'd be welcomed into a 16-team east LL and teams/clubs in the west would do their own thing. But it won't happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 12:11, LongTimeLurker said: Makes sense. I'm sure they would do well and have a very good shot at getting to the Lowland League within a couple of years of joining. The last thing the SFA full members want is a massive influx of new licensed clubs, so having a semi-detached junior grade that can't get licensed and join them at the subsidy trough is in their interests. Will be interesting to see what happens in the East if/when the EoS stabilizes in numbers terms at around 16 or so. If the HL can operate as a closed shop with no vacancies there is no obvious reason why the EoS couldn't do that as well. If clubs are thinking of making the move I would strike while the iron is still hot. I'm still not convinced by this. There are plenty of clubs in the senior set up who are unlicenced and do not participate in the Scottish Cup, so i'm not sure why a wholesale incorporation of the junior leagues would be any different: the vast majority of junior clubs would neither have an interest in becoming licenced or the quality to qualify for the Scottish Cup through league placing. That being the case, where would the threat be to the SFA and their money of the junior clubs joining? Elsewhere, I was wondering if there was any news on Bo'ness joining the EoSFL this summer, as they seemed quite keen last April at about the time Kelty were heading in that direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 8 January 2018 at 23:49, Garret Deasy said: I know it is enjoyable for some to play around with leagues, mergers, pyramids, cups, including diddy cups, summer season or winter breaks but I would like to go back a step. This takes us to how the sport is administered (by the SJFA) and also how clubs are run. There is a regular chorus about what the SJFA do, and especially what they don't do. All perfectly justified but would like to come back to that later. But first how the clubs are run. The evidence is pretty clear that clubs that run themselves 'correctly' are also more successful on the pitch. They have competent people in key posts on their committee who are there to take the club forward honestly and without personal agendas taking over. You only have to think of Auchinleck, Linlithgow (excluding the fat dictator's time when it started to fall apart), Pollok, Beith etc. A good few others I could mention. At the other end we have outrageous behaviour at club level which is tolerated and condoned by the powers that be in the SJFA. What you quietly condone today is only postponing a bigger and dirtier day of reckoning. One club run by two undischarged bankrupts, one looking after the money, while using the club facilities for 'extra curricular' activities, the income being pocketed. Funding given for a car park, £1200 (in cash) going on a lorry load of tarmac, the other 23,800 going on players. Few years later club on verge of going out of business. The manager who got players to sign for next season, keeping the forms in his back pocket. Then manager poached by another club so he tears up the forms and take the players to the new club. No honesty or ethics from his new club, stupidity from his old one. Clubs signing players on big contracts only to find that by October there is no money. SJFA seems happy for players to be treated like this. Generally on public funding, clubs not using the money as intended, which ruins that source for all others. Watch out for clubs buying players insisting on paying cash. Club that paid their bills by cheque only knowing they were overdrawn when the cheques bounced. And they bounced every week. Fine for some, but no way to run a club. The property speculators (not developers) who knows somebody who will buy the ground. This business 'angel' then gets on the committee and makes all the running. One committee member told me they would end up with half a million in the bank after the deal is done. Aye right! The club with a bar, the club losing serious money. When showing a breakdown of the finances to an accountant, he asked if I knew who was on the fiddle. Answer, probably 3 committee members. Committees are made up of people of all skills and backgrounds, but when a club is not run properly any potential volunteer committee member will turn up a few times and then run for it. Especially if they have a professional reputation to protect. So a bit of a catch 22, can't get volunteers on our committee, and yes we are a shambles but that is the way we do it here. So, my point is, can the SJFA not get a programme in place to help clubs run themselves better? It may be courses, getting advisers available on call to help, organising volunteers who can help for a set period (say a year) without signing up to a lifetime commitment. It must include how to manage money, plan ahead, to even running meetings, documenting what the committee does, marketing the club locally, and engaging with their members etc. All standard stuff. We can keep playing around with the changes on the playing side, but without substance and competence at club level we are merely building on sand, and the path ahead can only be downwards. Without strong clubs the SJFA is for nothing. We have few enough strong clubs in the junior ranks, and as we now see some of the more competent (and ambitious) ones are jumping ship. If the moment of decision is not now, when will it be?In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. – Theodore Roosevelt Probably lucky for some clubs they don't actually own the ground that they play in or that would have been punted decades ago. First priority must be complete honesty money wise on any committee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garret Deasy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Might be a starting point to consider this, cut from what other organisations conform to without the sky falling in. · Selflessness Holders of a junior club committee should act solely in terms of the interest of the club and its members. They should not do so in order to gain financial or other benefits for themselves, their family or their friends. · Integrity Holders of a junior club committee should not place themselves under any financial or other obligation to outside individuals or organisations that might seek to influence them in the performance of their official duties. · Objectivity In carrying out club business, including making appointments, awarding contracts, or recommending individuals for rewards and benefits, holders of a junior club committee should make choices on merit. · Accountability Holders of a junior club committee are accountable for their decisions and actions to the club members and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office. · Openness Holders of a junior club committee should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider club membership interest clearly demands it. · Honesty Holders of a junior club committee have a duty to declare any private interests relating to their public duties and to take steps to resolve any conflicts arising in a way that protects the interest of the club and its members. Leadership Holders of a junior club committee should promote and support these principles by leadership and example. Not just for clubs but the various committees involved in running the game. Anything here you club isn't doing? Edited January 10, 2018 by Garret Deasy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 There it is though ... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Dalkeith Thistle confirmed http://www.dalkeiththistle.co.uk/news/club-announcement-east-of-scotland-league-2145411.html 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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