Junior football, what is the future?

[Goalie Hamish]

I'm not sure the SJFA are in any position to demand their structure at the top end is at the same level as the Lowland League. They had their chance years ago and blew it.

BSC's proposal is one that has been talked about on here for a while and appears to be the final piece in the jigsaw with the Juniors coming in below that.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, Goalie Hamish said:

 

How do you deduce it will be half baked because an email has a few grammatical errors? Cmon.

 

I thought the same about Henry McLeish's review a few years back. The email has been explained, but it doesn't really excuse the lack of professionalism. 

A negotiated integration, taking in to account licensing, has to take place. Not just an invited group of compliant volunteers, queue jumpers and SPFL reserve teams.

[Goalie Hamish]

I thought the same about Henry McLeish's review a few years back. The email has been explained, but it doesn't really excuse the lack of professionalism. 
A negotiated integration, taking in to account licensing, has to take place. Not just an invited group of compliant volunteers, queue jumpers and SPFL reserve teams.

Problem appears to be that the SJFA have unrealistic expectations as to where they are in the pecking order which will probably lead nowhere. At least the West of Scotland League offers clubs a chance to progress and brings balance to the Pyramid below the Lowland League. It ticks a lot of boxes and the SJFA should be seriously considering it's merits otherwise clubs may just jump ship to it anyway.

[Che Dail]

4 hours ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

I think you’ll find that the proposal, when presented to those in power, will be comprehensive. 

It doesn't have to be overly complicated - if the intention is to mirror the EoS league then you have a ready made example there to follow and copy.  They have 4 office bearers from Edinburgh City, Whitehill Welfare, Ormiston and Tynecastle.  Their member clubs include league clubs such as Hearts, Hibs and Berwick Rangers. 

Their Mission Statement and Rules are on the website free to download:  http://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EOSFL-Policies.pdf

There is precedent for colt teams historically (Hibs U20s) and currently the Stirling University 2nd team plays in it with 1st team in LL (not sure if any other clubs object to this?)  

The league is Pyramid and SFA Licence friendly, allowing a pathway to the Lowland League and beyond.  Junior clubs are free to join if they wish, and are also free to leave if they want to do something else.

For the meeting next week I can't see how the SJFA can properly represent its clubs without canvassing opinion, especially since many of them don't want to join the pyramid - Linlithgow Rose (with licence) being the prime example in the East. 

On the face of it there is nothing wrong with the EoS as a route to LL, and it should be reasonably straightforward to get a similar set-up in the West - you'd only need 10 clubs in the whole of the West region, and by the sounds of it you're already halfway there.  

Edited December 31, 2017 by Che Dail

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, Goalie Hamish said:

 

Problem appears to be that the SJFA have unrealistic expectations as to where they are in the pecking order which will probably lead nowhere. At least the West of Scotland League offers clubs a chance to progress and brings balance to the Pyramid below the Lowland League. It ticks a lot of boxes and the SJFA should be seriously considering it's merits otherwise clubs may just jump ship to it anyway.

 

I'm not sure the expectation is that unrealistic. Unfortunately I don't have much faith in the SJFA leadership to make the best possible case for the clubs, which might lead to "defections". 

[FairWeatherFan]

The argument that the SJFA simply has to make is that the 3 Regional Super Leagues can slot in to Tier 6 with any licenced champion having the opportunity to gain promotion to the Lowland/Highland League.

The finessing of promotion playoffs betwen West/East/SoSFL/EoSFL, Relegation from Lowland & North of the Tay would have to be worked out. Those can certainly be done, as the benefits outweigh the negatives. Eventually the West/East/SoSFL/EoSFL would hopefully come to some sort of merger arrangement.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The argument that the SJFA simply has to make is that the 3 Regional Super Leagues can slot in to Tier 6 with any licenced champion having the opportunity to gain promotion to the Lowland/Highland League.

The finessing of promotion playoffs betwen West/East/SoSFL/EoSFL, Relegation from Lowland & North of the Tay would have to be worked out. Those can certainly be done, as the benefits outweigh the negatives. Eventually the West/East/SoSFL/EoSFL would hopefully come to some sort of merger arrangement.

 

I'd be looking for the present East and South leagues to slot in below the East and West Super Leagues as an opening position.

[daleboy1969]

20 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said:

 

Problem appears to be that the SJFA have unrealistic expectations as to where they are in the pecking order which will probably lead nowhere. At least the West of Scotland League offers clubs a chance to progress and brings balance to the Pyramid below the Lowland League. It ticks a lot of boxes and the SJFA should be seriously considering it's merits otherwise clubs may just jump ship to it anyway.

 

I don't think it's unrealistic for the sjfa to have there say in the future set up off scottish non league football .given they are bigger than all the others put together .after all we allow two clubs in Glasgow to dictate senior football simply because off their size .but your correct that the sjfa leadership aren't up to the job off representing the clubs in the association. The recent it's a holiday oh sorry it's not a holiday around Christmas FIXTURES continues to make the junior game a laughing stock .I believe that like our friends South off the border any clubs climbing should be improving facilities as they go .clubs in our sulerleagues should have floodlights for instance . ( impose a system like the green guide on junior clubs )

[LongTimeLurker]

The potential for a car crash in all of this is that the Lowland League playoff games are currently scheduled for the first two weekends of May and that means champions would need to be sorted out almost two months before the junior season typically ends at the moment. There would be a lot to negotiate if the east and west superleague hooked into the LL in pro/rel terms.

[Nikos K]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I thought the same about Henry McLeish's review a few years back. The email has been explained, but it doesn't really excuse the lack of professionalism. 

A negotiated integration, taking in to account licensing, has to take place. Not just an invited group of compliant volunteers, queue jumpers and SPFL reserve teams.

Bit unfair and short sighted calling ambitious clubs queue jumpers. If they want to better themselves they have every right to go for this . 

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, Nikos K said:

Bit unfair and short sighted calling ambitious clubs queue jumpers. If they want to better themselves they have every right to go for this . 

Would you agree that Dundee United should be invited back in to the Premier  League at the expense of another club? They are ambitious and traditionally a top division club.

[Shanner]

18 minutes ago, Nikos K said:

Bit unfair and short sighted calling ambitious clubs queue jumpers. If they want to better themselves they have every right to go for this . 

Ambitious is one way of looking at it, opportunistic is another.  Better for overall integrity if teams reach their level on merit. 

 

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

3 minutes ago, Shanner said:

Ambitious is one way of looking at it, opportunistic is another.  Better for overall integrity if teams reach their level on merit. 

 

 

It’s not opportunistic if it’s open to all clubs and most don’t want to take part.

 

[Nikos K]

26 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Would you agree that Dundee United should be invited back in to the Premier  League at the expense of another club? They are ambitious and traditionally a top division club.

Seriously? Probably the most stupid reply on this thread . They are a club in the pyramid who are at the level they have found themselves at . As would other clubs in the pyramid, how you achieve your place in said pyramid is through ambition and a lesser extent opportunity but why not go for it when it's there. 

[Arthurlie1981]

This part is interesting as it seems that a number of clubs were unaware of the proposal. It would help if this question was answered.

Looks like it won’t be answered. If BSC are serious then ALL junior club should of been contacted. Their email looks thoroughly unprofessional (the excuse that it’s not been proof read is poor). I again ask the question, which junior clubs were contacted and if only specific clubs were contacted why were those clubs selected. Is BSC idea going to be a closed shop, if so then why not say it.

As the old saying goes, there are more questions than answers.

[Sergeant Wilson]

21 minutes ago, Nikos K said:

Seriously? Probably the most stupid reply on this thread . They are a club in the pyramid who are at the level they have found themselves at . As would other clubs in the pyramid, how you achieve your place in said pyramid is through ambition and a lesser extent opportunity but why not go for it when it's there. 

It probably isn't the best example. But I'm still dubious about ambition and opportunity being significant factors and I'd be disappointed to see a manufactured division based on those.

 

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, daleboy1969 said:

I don't think it's unrealistic for the sjfa to have there say in the future set up off scottish non league football .given they are bigger than all the others put together .after all we allow two clubs in Glasgow to dictate senior football simply because off their size .but your correct that the sjfa leadership aren't up to the job off representing the clubs in the association. The recent it's a holiday oh sorry it's not a holiday around Christmas FIXTURES continues to make the junior game a laughing stock .I believe that like our friends South off the border any clubs climbing should be improving facilities as they go .clubs in our sulerleagues should have floodlights for instance . ( impose a system like the green guide on junior clubs )

EOSFL weren't playing either so thats alright.

[stanley]

I hope the West of Scotland League happens as I think it would represent some more progress towards a proper pyramid system. 

At the same time, it would still be crazy to have the South of Scotland League at the same level as the West of Scotland League when the SoS almost entirely represents only Dumfries & Galloway.  I would hope that, over time, it would merge with the West league.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

4 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

Looks like it won’t be answered. If BSC are serious then ALL junior club should of been contacted. Their email looks thoroughly unprofessional (the excuse that it’s not been proof read is poor). I again ask the question, which junior clubs were contacted and if only specific clubs were contacted why were those clubs selected. Is BSC idea going to be a closed shop, if so then why not say it.

As the old saying goes, there are more questions than answers.

 

In answer to your question, it’s not a closed shop.  The result of the meeting in the 5th will go a long way to determining which clubs will want to take part. 

Happy New Year to you.

[GLESGABOY]

5 minutes ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

In answer to your question, it’s not a closed shop.  The result of the meeting in the 5th will go a long way to determining which clubs will want to take part. 

Happy New Year to you.

So if the first round of clubs that were allegedly invited via your first circulation decline to go forward then do you circulate another invitation to the other clubs that allegedly  weren`t invited initially?