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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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With no Scottish Cup Sponsor and no fixture lists there will be clubs looking to go for SFA membership in the next few seasons.

Looking at Kelty with their full list of fixtures does make you realise how poorly organised the west juniors are.

This is something talked about almost ever week at the Buffs committee meetings and discussed with visiting committees, something will happen 

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Look the point of Kelty joining the EOS league wasn't because they thought the standard was higher than the Juniors. They've scored 47 goals in their 6 league games - that would seem to indicate that it's not.

Kelty will win the EOS this year -they will gain promotion to Lowland League. They will be one of the strongest teams in the league. The benefits to them are :

  • Automatic entry to Scottish Cup
  • Entry to Scottish League Cup Group Stage ( if you finish top the year before and don't get promoted to SPFL2)
  • Entry to Challenge Cup ( top 4 ) group stages
  • Sponsorship payments and SFA payments

This is about future ambition to be a member of the Scottish League not about local rivalries or cheap fitba

 

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9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

What about this from the SJFA in September:

PYRAMID

The East Region Secretary updated the Committee on Pyramid.  It was agreed that a Working Party be formed from the Committee to determine the best possible way forward for Junior Football.

Sorted then eh?

A Working Party. 

It'll get nowhere unless they change it to a Focus Group.

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9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

What about this from the SJFA in September:

PYRAMID

The East Region Secretary updated the Committee on Pyramid.  It was agreed that a Working Party be formed from the Committee to determine the best possible way forward for Junior Football.

Sorted then eh?

A Working Party. 

Interesting, what exactly is their remit here? anyone know what the update was?

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22 minutes ago, BANKIEBILL said:

 

This is about future ambition to be a member of the Scottish League not about local rivalries or cheap fitba

 

It's about being the best you can as a club, for Kelty that means going beyond the glass ceiling of winning the East Superleague.

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38 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's about being the best you can as a club, for Kelty that means going beyond the glass ceiling of winning the East Superleague.

I mean their specific goal Burnie_man ... which I guess is how they see their goal as you express it being manifested

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8 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Its bizarre that clubs at this level would take a local derby in the Juniors over the prospect of being able to enter the SPFL and make a national name for themselves.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I do agree with you that this chest thumping, displayed on other threads here, exists whereby some are blawing about the fact that they are provincial and cheap. Some would argue that these = low quality.

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8 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

I can see both sides of the argument, but I do agree with you that this chest thumping, displayed on other threads here, exists whereby some are blawing about the fact that they are provincial and cheap. Some would argue that these = low quality.

The quality in the Lowland League isn't as good overall. But the top teams are good as super league teams.  The difference is JUniors is more physical. Lowland league is more technical.

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Thing is, as things stand it makes perfect sense for Kelty to have done it; there are a set of local conditions which make this pathway ideal for them, as two miles down the road from them there is an SPFL club in seemingly terminal decline who Kelty’s long game I imagine is to replace. They might never be the oft-quoted “new Ross County” but they can certainly be the new Cowdenbeath – who if they lose their SPFL status as seems a matter of time it’s difficult to see a way back for.

On the downside, Kelty have got to spend at least one season – the presence of LTHV seems to be the only stumbling block – ritually humping the likes of Eyemouth/Tweedmouth and pretending it’s a step up from what they were used to.

For a West club looking to do similar, the pathway is more problematic – a season (at least) in the SoS making 200+ mile round trips to every away game to play in front of 20-30 people with zero income from visiting fans in the return fixture. The big pay-off - apart from Scottish Cup entry of course - is the chance to continue making slightly less arduous trips to the likes of Selkirk and Innerleithen to play in front of 40-50 people, again with virtually zero income from visiting fans in the return fixture.

Yeah, the pyramid is a good idea however I don’t see many clubs wishing to sacrifice themselves on the altar of an idea. The geography of the setup as it currently exists would make it financially – maybe also logistically – impractical for most West teams to countenance…Threave, who I believe were one of the initial LL movers and shakers have already retreated back to the SoS league with their tails between their legs for much those reasons.

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I mean their specific goal Burnie_man ... which I guess is how they see their goal as you express it being manifested


Correct, they want to go as far as they can. We should have a league structure that allows clubs to achieve this more easily.
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What about this from the SJFA in September:

PYRAMID

The East Region Secretary updated the Committee on Pyramid.  It was agreed that a Working Party be formed from the Committee to determine the best possible way forward for Junior Football.

Sorted then eh?

A Working Party. 

 

On the face of it a positive move. However that's only true if it isn't filled with the same isolationist, scaremongers that have been on such groups before.

 

Thing is, as things stand it makes perfect sense for Kelty to have done it; there are a set of local conditions which make this pathway ideal for them, as two miles down the road from them there is an SPFL club in seemingly terminal decline who Kelty’s long game I imagine is to replace. They might never be the oft-quoted “new Ross County” but they can certainly be the new Cowdenbeath – who if they lose their SPFL status as seems a matter of time it’s difficult to see a way back for

 

I highly doubt replacing cowdenbeath is part of the plan. Kelty's ambitious are little to do with what happens down the road. Having regular games between the sides would be very positive for football in that part of fife.

 

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42 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Its bizarre that clubs at this level would take a local derby in the Juniors over the prospect of being able to enter the SPFL and make a national name for themselves.

Really, Auchinleck v. Cumnock/Glenafton/Kilwinning etc sounds more attractive than Edusport/Elgin/Annan. There needs to be more than just the attitude of the junior clubs to change to have a truly representative pyramid.

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Buffs haven't been in the same league as the Medda for as long, the local derby is a point, but clubs have to look to the future, this season we've had Saltcoats pull out of the Scottish tie and 6 away games in a row, the second rule in the rule book is to Foster and Develop the Junior game, or something like that, no major sponsor, no fixtures, the leagues in decline, whilst clubs want to secure there future in a safe and organised league.

 

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7 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

On the face of it a positive move. However that's only true if it isn't filled with the same isolationist, scaremongers that have been on such groups before.

It's a working group "formed from the Committee".

The same group as before?

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6 hours ago, parkcircus said:

Buffs haven't been in the same league as the Medda for as long, the local derby is a point, but clubs have to look to the future, this season we've had Saltcoats pull out of the Scottish tie and 6 away games in a row, the second rule in the rule book is to Foster and Develop the Junior game, or something like that, no major sponsor, no fixtures, the leagues in decline, whilst clubs want to secure there future in a safe and organised league.

 

If up to me then I would just pyramid all the leagues like a dictatorship and anyone who doesnt want to be in it can feck off to the amatuers. Floodlights would also have to be installed if clubs can't afford it they too can clear off to the amatuers.

Obviously that's extreme but in scotland people can't agree the colour of shite so make the decision for them. The whole set up we have now through out scottish football is just ridiculous and geared to keep the money between the top clubs, instead of moving the game forward across the board.

 

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8 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Thing is, as things stand it makes perfect sense for Kelty to have done it; there are a set of local conditions which make this pathway ideal for them, as two miles down the road from them there is an SPFL club in seemingly terminal decline who Kelty’s long game I imagine is to replace. They might never be the oft-quoted “new Ross County” but they can certainly be the new Cowdenbeath – who if they lose their SPFL status as seems a matter of time it’s difficult to see a way back for.

On the downside, Kelty have got to spend at least one season – the presence of LTHV seems to be the only stumbling block – ritually humping the likes of Eyemouth/Tweedmouth and pretending it’s a step up from what they were used to.

For a West club looking to do similar, the pathway is more problematic – a season (at least) in the SoS making 200+ mile round trips to every away game to play in front of 20-30 people with zero income from visiting fans in the return fixture. The big pay-off - apart from Scottish Cup entry of course - is the chance to continue making slightly less arduous trips to the likes of Selkirk and Innerleithen to play in front of 40-50 people, again with virtually zero income from visiting fans in the return fixture.

Yeah, the pyramid is a good idea however I don’t see many clubs wishing to sacrifice themselves on the altar of an idea. The geography of the setup as it currently exists would make it financially – maybe also logistically – impractical for most West teams to countenance…Threave, who I believe were one of the initial LL movers and shakers have already retreated back to the SoS league with their tails between their legs for much those reasons.

If all junior clubs were part of the pyramid then you would have plenty of local games and much less travel.

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40 minutes ago, kenny131 said:

If up to me then I would just pyramid all the leagues like a dictatorship and anyone who doesnt want to be in it can feck off to the amatuers. Floodlights would also have to be installed if clubs can't afford it they too can clear off to the amatuers.

Obviously that's extreme but in scotland people can't agree the colour of shite so make the decision for them. The whole set up we have now through out scottish football is just ridiculous and geared to keep the money between the top clubs, instead of moving the game forward across the board.

 

How many have got lights now or could afford to install them quick? It would mean about half a dozen clubs not "clearing off".

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5 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

How many have got lights now or could afford to install them quick? It would mean about half a dozen clubs not "clearing off".

Plenty clubs would make it and it's what is needed it would mean completely scrapping the juniors altogether with a pyramid the rest go amatuer, this for me would see lots of clubs improving infrastructure of the years and make things more professional to long has the status quo been here and it's suffocating our national game into almost being irrelevant. For me the SFA have 1 last chance to halt the incredible decline of our game nation wide and pyramiding the lot is the way to go. This would open  up more money flowing across the divisions meaning more investment which means more talent coming through it's not rocket science. Unfortunately there only concern is keeping money at the top and in the blazers pockets.

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