The DUP

[Kejan]

I was speaking to a Irish nationalist  from Northern Ireland last night (I think he was an SDLP man himself) but he said that if there ever is a border poll he wouldn't campaign for one unless its an inclusive one 'to encourage the Unionists rather than drag them'  his words- seats in the Dáil for the Unionists ; the 12th a holiday ; new flag, new anthem ; and if NI wanted to keep their team etc they should be able to ; a devolved Stormont. 

Interesting, and no idea if he's just a one-man band or if Fine Gael etc would campaign on something like this?

[gannonball]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionist-vents-anger-at-new-york-mayors-gerry-adams-day-honour-for-exsinn-fein-chief-36716273.html

meltdown incoming

[NotThePars]

The crediting of Adams’s role in the peace process before equating him to Osama bin-Laden is fucking brilliant patter.

[welshbairn]

I'd be interested to hear what our NI brethren think about the BBC2 documentary tonight (not available in Scotland, probably available at a different time and definitely now on i player) called The Funeral Murders. I understand it's difficult to balance these things but it seemed well skewed in favour of the Republicans to me. No explanation of the argument that the Gibraltar 3 may have been thought to be about to trigger a car bomb, or not. Lots of time for Michael Stone fans to make them look deranged, although maybe just honest. Choice of very thoughtful interviewees from the Republican side. With all the talk about BBC bias from all sides, where does this lie?

P.S. Comparing the 2 atrocities as some kind of balancing act for fairness was maybe a bit daft. Horrific attack in the first funeral followed by a speeding car meeting the second with a man in the car firing a gun. It would be hard not to frame it from the Republican perspective.

Edited March 19, 2018 by welshbairn

[Jacksgranda]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I'd be interested to hear what our NI brethren think about the BBC2 documentary tonight (not available in Scotland, probably available at a different time and definitely now on i player) called The Funeral Murders. I understand it's difficult to balance these things but it seemed well skewed in favour of the Republicans to me. No explanation of the argument that the Gibraltar 3 may have been thought to be about to trigger a car bomb, or not. Lots of time for Michael Stone fans to make them look deranged, although maybe just honest. Choice of very thoughtful interviewees from the Republican side. With all the talk about BBC bias from all sides, where does this lie?

P.S. Comparing the 2 atrocities as some kind of balancing act for fairness was maybe a bit daft. Horrific attack in the first funeral followed by a speeding car meeting the second with a man in the car firing a gun. It would be hard not to frame it from the Republican perspective.

I didn't see it, but I think it would be hard to make a case for Michael Stone's attack at Milltown Cemetery. As far as I'm concerned the three terrorists shot in Gibraltar got what they deserved, and what they and their ilk had inflicted on others in years previous, but that doesn't excuse/condone Stone's actions.

It would be difficult to get a thoughtful interviewee from loyalism, as most of the "leaders"/spokesmen are/were thick as shit and could barely string a sentence together - not that I would say that to their faces of course - and most of them were more interested in accruing wealth through crime than "defending their community", and when they weren't murdering innocent Roman Catholics were busy murdering their rival leaders/alleged informers/some poor soul who had inadvertently insulted them.

As for the torture and murder of the two corporals, that was an absolutely horrific act (there was a good article by Alex Kane about it in yesterday's Newsletter*) which has to be condemned, but in the context of the previous few weeks, it is understandable the reaction of the mob.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/thirty-years-on-corporals-offered-little-or-no-resistance-as-they-were-driven-to-their-deaths-1-8406369 - *this is the article, it wasn't by Alex Kane

[Co.Down Hibee]

Always felt there was more to the corporals being there than was told, horrific act all the same.

 

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Co.Down Hibee said:

Always felt there was more to the corporals being there than was told, horrific act all the same.

 

Sometimes I think the same, you'd wonder about 2 soldiers touring west Belfast in a civilian motor on the day of a high profile republican funeral, you'd have thought all off duty soldiers would have been well warned to steer clear.

[welshbairn]

37 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Sometimes I think the same, you'd wonder about 2 soldiers touring west Belfast in a civilian motor on the day of a high profile republican funeral, you'd have thought all off duty soldiers would have been well warned to steer clear.

I thought at the time that the guy who'd been there for a while was trying to put the shits up the new boy for a laugh, but it all went a bit pear shaped when there was no exit.

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I thought at the time that the guy who'd been there for a while was trying to put the shits up the new boy for a laugh, but it all went a bit pear shaped when there was no exit.

That vaguely rings  a bell, there may have been chat about that at the time.

You'd need to know your way round those wee streets back in those days.

I remember we had a job off the Springfield Road in the 2000s, we were there for weeks surveying the houses (well, days, anyway) and I still was getting the streets mixed up. I wouldn't have fancied my chances if I had been in a panic and trying to get away in a hurry.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jacksgranda

[gannonball]

2 hours ago, Co.Down Hibee said:

Always felt there was more to the corporals being there than was told, horrific act all the same.

 

It is plausible they got lost innocently and met their horrific death because of it, but I think most think they were the there for other reasons. It might have been off the record even as under cover surveillance goes so we will most likely never know if we dont know now. I thought the scottish army guy gave the most honest accounts of all, unsurpisingly put the RUC in a bad light. 

[welshbairn]

55 minutes ago, gannonball said:

It is plausible they got lost innocently and met their horrific death because of it, but I think most think they were the there for other reasons. It might have been off the record even as under cover surveillance goes so we will most likely never know if we dont know now. I thought the scottish army guy gave the most honest accounts of all, unsurpisingly put the RUC in a bad light. 

If they were undercover they wouldn't have driven at full pelt towards the cortege. I think the plan was to veer off down a side street but the exits were blocked due to the number of cars.

[LongTimeLurker]

Haven't seen the documentary. From what I remember at the time it was originally reported by the media that the two corporals were Loyalists rather than soldiers and the suspicion in the aftermath was that the reason that they were left to their gruesome fate by the security forces was that Michael Stone had effectively been rescued from a similar fate and the powers that be may have come to the conclusion that not doing so in their case would make Loyalists think twice before ever doing something like that again. Think welshbairn's scenario rings true and would fit what unfolded.

[invergowrie arab]

At least one of the corporals was armed and had drawn his weapon when being pulled from car .

Was it normal for off duty soldiers to be armed?

 

[mjw]

One of their colleagues wrote a book about his experiences over there.
They weren't soldiers who went out on patrols,they spent their time fixing communication masts and the like.
There's also the claim that the guy nearing the end of his service was 'showboating ' in front of the new guy.

[gannonball]

My Dad, the Peace Deal and Me: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09y26jk via @bbciplayer

Not really a fan of Patrick Kielty but found this quite good, I knew his father was killed but hadn't really ever hear about him speak about it.

[pandarilla]

My Dad, the Peace Deal and Me: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09y26jk via @bbciplayer
Not really a fan of Patrick Kielty but found this quite good, I knew his father was killed but hadn't really ever hear about him speak about it.

Aye we watched this last night. It's very good.

Balanced, without being pointless.

[strichener]

4 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Aye we watched this last night. It's very good.

Balanced, without being pointless.

Agreed.  Thought it was going to be quite pointless, I mean Patrick Kielty!!  However it actually turned into a very good programme.

[Kejan]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-feins-mcdonald-uses-term-londonderry-and-backs-unionist-election-candidate-36842072.html

 

[Jacksgranda]

Dropping this in here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44088153

Sticks in the throat, heard various local politicos complaining about it yesterday on the radio, completely missing the point that it would have been illegal to keep him in jail any longer (as far as I understand it), despite the best efforts of the presenter to get them to address that issue.

It's morally wrong, legally correct and came about through political expediency.

[Glenconner]

43 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Dropping this in here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44088153

Sticks in the throat, heard various local politicos complaining about it yesterday on the radio, completely missing the point that it would have been illegal to keep him in jail any longer (as far as I understand it), despite the best efforts of the presenter to get them to address that issue.

It's morally wrong, legally correct and came about through political expediency.

Secret location outside of the Failed State?

So that's a flat in Troon then.