Cowdenbeath FC. 2017/18 Season

[Cowden316]

16 minutes ago, big al said:

Forget all the club135, etc etc

100 extra fans at each home game is the real answer. 

Certainly would help Al but no guarantees of keeping them as we look like we are down to the bare bones of our most loyal supporters given the last home attendance. 

Getting more supporters has always been the obvious easy  answer but it has not been achieved and not easy to do so. 

Perhaps a pilot between now and they end of the season should be done for neutral fans who have affection for Cowdenbeath F.C between now and the end of the season bring your clubs season ticket and get into Central Park for half price or every Cowden fan tasked with bring a freind match day 

 

[big al]

23 minutes ago, Cowden316 said:

Certainly would help Al but no guarantees of keeping them as we look like we are down to the bare bones of our most loyal supporters given the last home attendance. 

Getting more supporters has always been the obvious easy  answer but it has not been achieved and not easy to do so. 

Perhaps a pilot between now and they end of the season should be done for neutral fans who have affection for Cowdenbeath F.C between now and the end of the season bring your clubs season ticket and get into Central Park for half price or every Cowden fan tasked with bring a freind match day 

 

Maybe good ideas mate, hard to tell.

my point was more that we are where we are because we dont get enough fans. It’s not going to change because the locals don’t care so we end up in lowland league with 40/ week players as that’s  all we can afford.

The fans who are going to put any money in are already doing it via 100 club, bonus ball etc so launching another scheme and asking the same 300 loyals to raise 135000 is just pie in the sky.

[parsforlife]

football eats whatever money you generate it seems. .

It does tend to, which is why you need to explain what your doing with this money. You had your chance with bigger crowds and prize money but chose to pay bigger wages in the hope some hero would turn up who weren't aware of cowdenbeath as a league 1 side but would as a championship team, something that has worked for approximately 0 clubs ever.

If that money disappeared then what happens to this money? Are you going to have a meaningful change of structure? or is it also going to go on paying bigger wages than you can afford otherwise so cowdenbeath can avoid being relegated ?

[Muzza81]

Our fan base isn’t really that much worse than most part time teams, with a few exceptions. We are where we are because of our unique circumstances and bad timing in the sale of the club, which contrived against us.

An extra 100 fans wouldn’t really solve anything long term sadly. I don’t see a way out of this without massive assistance from the council in building a new ground. 

[Cowden316]

42 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

It does tend to, which is why you need to explain what your doing with this money. You had your chance with bigger crowds and prize money but chose to pay bigger wages in the hope some hero would turn up who weren't aware of cowdenbeath as a league 1 side but would as a championship team, something that has worked for approximately 0 clubs ever.

If that money disappeared then what happens to this money? Are you going to have a meaningful change of structure? or is it also going to go on paying bigger wages than you can afford otherwise so cowdenbeath can avoid being relegated ?

 

I guess its like any club things may have to be tailored depending on circumstances for example Cowden get promoted next year giving them an increase in gate money and prize money then great the club is heading on a more stronger footing financially so long as other continued fundraising initiatives are in operation. So far so good..... Then of course it could be the other way about by being relegated out of the SPFL 2 into the Lowland League two  years without a return no SPFL parachute payment anymore continuing to pay to play at Central Park then again yes due to circumstances if they remain the same is our current circumstances  then yes the club would have to consider raising more funds like any other club would. Our  circumstances are different in some ways with the ground ownership posing as a barrier to the clubs progression in my view

Fair question though which questions like these from well wishers and fans I am sure will be clarified. 

The club in it's current circumstances has a bleak future but hopefully the club will get the backing it deserves to build a sustainable future 

For the club to be taken forward in my personal view is  there needs to be a strong bond between the club and the town to be fully realised together with everyone connected at the club whilst also having in place an established enthusiastic Supporters Council who can drive forward recommendations and influence decisions for the greater good of Cowdenbeath Football Club whilst identifying and building strong relationships with key stakeholders who could perhaps help our cause. On top of this there also needs to be a strong vision from the football club of what it wants to achieve and how it expects to get there.  I am confident such conversations will be outlined by the club at the Public meeting. 

You could always suggest a fundraising game against you guys at EEP to help your Fife neighbours with all the gate money going to Cowdenbeath and 50/50 on profits in your bar/catering facilities etc lol 

[Cowden316]

5 hours ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Just to get back to the fitba. What’s the chance of Saturday’s game being on ?

Good question 

With the overnight temperatures forecast to be low and a good bit of rain I am not sure if the covers are going to be placed down or not. 

Hopefully the game will be on 

[1320Lichtie]

Our fan base isn’t really that much worse than most part time teams, with a few exceptions. We are where we are because of our unique circumstances and bad timing in the sale of the club, which contrived against us.
An extra 100 fans wouldn’t really solve anything long term sadly. I don’t see a way out of this without massive assistance from the council in building a new ground. 

Obviously the ground doesn’t help generate much, not sure what you have in the way of hospitality etc but I think an additional 100 fans really would help surely, an extra say 20k odd a season just on gate receipts if you’re going by an average of a tenner a head. Even without the other things they would be spending money on. League 2 champions only make about 60k I’m sure.

Annan and Edinburgh are quite close to you attendance wise but they have both got their own perks. Annan seem well backed in the community with a cracking social club and Edinburgh just with their location and contacts.

But surely most other teams have quite a good advantage just with the higher crowds they’re attracting?

[foreverarover]

7 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Few questions need answered really before people should be parting with their cash.

What's the money for? You are asking people to help out without giving a plan on how it's going to help, is it paying off outstanding bills? Is it going towards a stake in Central Park? A new ground? £135k is a huge amount to not give any explanation for.

What's different now? That's yet another article blaming mine closures and no stock car cash, it goes little to explain why the clubs not operating within its means. Not owning the ground and not making income from others renting it is far from a unique situation, you can't keep looking backward.

What changes are being made to prevent the another begging bowl going out in 6 months time(wether relegated or not). You need to run the club differently, we have heard the same arguments about being skint for years now, not sustainable in the championship, not sustainable in league 1, not sustainable in league 2, not sustainable in LL. WHY?

Whilst your poor performances on the pitch can be amusing the business side of the club needs to be structured so it can handle the good and bad times on the pitch, hopefully you get that sorted soon.

I think you should try to go down the lines of administration. Pay tuppence in the pound. Seems to work for other clubs. 

[onecowden]

I think you should try to go down the lines of administration. Pay tuppence in the pound. Seems to work for other clubs. 

You need debt for that. We don’t have any debts, therefore no creditors.

[onecowden]

You need debt for that. We don’t have any debts, therefore no creditors.

Edit to add- That is apart from the directors and a few others who over the years have put a lot of their hard earned in. Something that shouldn’t be ignored.

[big al]

Not sure how having an extra 100 fans doesn’t help?

apart from the obvious extra cash at gate, and small spend at games, it helps in other ways. There are more people interested, so talk about it with more people at home / in the pub etc. Meaning more awareness and more likelihood of pubs/ businesses interested in sponsoring. Better atmosphere at games so if friends tag along 1 day more likely to return.

more fans means more potential volunteers, more people for the sportsman’s dinner, more people for fundraising initiatives.........

the list of positive benefits goes on and on

[NELLY]

Would we have had to pay up 2-3 months of wages to malone in paying him off or would it be a case of just cancel my contract no payment required...?

Reason im asking is the amount of signings we make season on season is worrying all the way back to championship teams. I dont know exact players used but i would assume compared to other clubs our size e.g montrose/albion rovers etc they will use less players. Player recruitment is such a huge thing for a club our size and we have not found the right balance in recent seasons. Danny Lennon and Colin Cameron for all their faults in the main had decent player recruitment (finance of course plays a part in that also I agree) much tougher for bollan and brown than these 2. 

It must be hard for the board who perhaps put up cash for specific signings and then players dont perform or are punted out within a short period of time. These players are likely signed over and above our budget.

The future is bleak however the short term focus is on survival and then perhaps a re-vamp of the structure of how we do things. Follow the model of craig levein when we were at our lowest point. He played youngsters deemed not good enough but turned out to be decent supplemented that with good experienced pros with vast levels of experience whos best days are behind them but perhaps wanted to go down coaching route. e.g fraser wright at stirling but good still do a decent job. e.g bryan gilfillan who btw has been very good.

Time for fans to be realistic we wont be able to compete at higher positions in league but with a decent footballing structure/manager and improved community backing we can survive albeit not to the heights of which Donald and some board members perhaps would have liked in the past.

Donalds comment of wanting to achieve being a mid table championship team in my opinion was not ever going to be achievable or sustainable.

All about surviving now and the start is by staying up through the play offs because that is where we are headed. 

Boys like connelly/muirhead/mcinally/harvey swan. They will only improve with good coaching and games. We will get poor performances from them and outmuscled etc however the long term benefits should they stay will mean we should reap the benefits in 2-3 seasons time thus then pushing up the league with better performing players. Im alarmed at how poor some of the young players coming through are. We had a real good history of producing decent players (not top players) but good players who have went on to become excellent lower league players some of whom I would love to have back in our side now.

Mone the Cowden

[Muzza81]

4 hours ago, big al said:

Not sure how having an extra 100 fans doesn’t help?

apart from the obvious extra cash at gate, and small spend at games, it helps in other ways. There are more people interested, so talk about it with more people at home / in the pub etc. Meaning more awareness and more likelihood of pubs/ businesses interested in sponsoring. Better atmosphere at games so if friends tag along 1 day more likely to return.

more fans means more potential volunteers, more people for the sportsman’s dinner, more people for fundraising initiatives.........

the list of positive benefits goes on and on

It would help short term, obviously. But the reality is an extra 100 fans each week isn't going to change the long term fortunes of the club. It isn't going to get us a home, an asset.

Anyway, we have had those extra 100 fans previously and they are long gone so you may get them but you have to keep them. Fan numbers peak and trough and the main driver behind getting more fans into Central Park is an improved product on the pitch. Not much else will do it.

You could say 200 more fans, 300 more fans. Where do you stop?

[Muzza81]

12 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

Obviously the ground doesn’t help generate much, not sure what you have in the way of hospitality etc but I think an additional 100 fans really would help surely, an extra say 20k odd a season just on gate receipts if you’re going by an average of a tenner a head. Even without the other things they would be spending money on. League 2 champions only make about 60k I’m sure.

Annan and Edinburgh are quite close to you attendance wise but they have both got their own perks. Annan seem well backed in the community with a cracking social club and Edinburgh just with their location and contacts.

But surely most other teams have quite a good advantage just with the higher crowds they’re attracting?
 

 

Of course it would help us to put a more competitive team on the park, that isn't what I am saying at all. I am talking about how will that help us long term. You could argue more fans > higher wages > better team (not always) > promotion > more exposure. But we have been there and our off field fortunes haven't taken an upturn.

The number of people through the turnstiles should not be something that is important right now as we have nothing to offer these people. Get them through and I can assure you they wont hang about for long.

[The Minertaur]

3 hours ago, NELLY said:

Reason im asking is the amount of signings we make season on season is worrying all the way back to championship teams. I dont know exact players used but i would assume compared to other clubs our size e.g montrose/albion rovers etc they will use less players.

I actually wrote about this in the programme for the Montrose match last week so this may be out of date now.   Purely league games only this the number of players to have at least played 1 minute  -

Annan Athletic – 25

Berwick Rangers – 20

Clyde – 25

Cowdenbeath - 27

Edinburgh City – 24

Elgin City – 20

Montrose - 22

Peterhead – 23

Stenhousemuir - 20

Stirling Albion -23

[Neilly]

100 extra fans coming through the gate paying 12 quid is just completely unrealistic. Be lucky to pick up any new supporters at this level in a season nevermind 100 who have magically decided to give up part of their Saturday to pay 12 pound for zero entertainment.

Obviously the fare served up at Cowden is extra shit but this applies across the board at this level. The football is eye numbing for the most part unless it's engrained in you there is next to no chance of getting an influx of new supporters unless you are winning the league playing great football.

[Cowden Cowboy]

3 hours ago, NELLY said:

Would we have had to pay up 2-3 months of wages to malone in paying him off or would it be a case of just cancel my contract no payment required...?

Reason im asking is the amount of signings we make season on season is worrying all the way back to championship teams. I dont know exact players used but i would assume compared to other clubs our size e.g montrose/albion rovers etc they will use less players. Player recruitment is such a huge thing for a club our size and we have not found the right balance in recent seasons. Danny Lennon and Colin Cameron for all their faults in the main had decent player recruitment (finance of course plays a part in that also I agree) much tougher for bollan and brown than these 2. 

It must be hard for the board who perhaps put up cash for specific signings and then players dont perform or are punted out within a short period of time. These players are likely signed over and above our budget.

The future is bleak however the short term focus is on survival and then perhaps a re-vamp of the structure of how we do things. Follow the model of craig levein when we were at our lowest point. He played youngsters deemed not good enough but turned out to be decent supplemented that with good experienced pros with vast levels of experience whos best days are behind them but perhaps wanted to go down coaching route. e.g fraser wright at stirling but good still do a decent job. e.g bryan gilfillan who btw has been very good.

Time for fans to be realistic we wont be able to compete at higher positions in league but with a decent footballing structure/manager and improved community backing we can survive albeit not to the heights of which Donald and some board members perhaps would have liked in the past.

Donalds comment of wanting to achieve being a mid table championship team in my opinion was not ever going to be achievable or sustainable.

All about surviving now and the start is by staying up through the play offs because that is where we are headed. 

Boys like connelly/muirhead/mcinally/harvey swan. They will only improve with good coaching and games. We will get poor performances from them and outmuscled etc however the long term benefits should they stay will mean we should reap the benefits in 2-3 seasons time thus then pushing up the league with better performing players. Im alarmed at how poor some of the young players coming through are. We had a real good history of producing decent players (not top players) but good players who have went on to become excellent lower league players some of whom I would love to have back in our side now.

Mone the Cowden

Player recruitment numbers are a chicken and egg situation - clubs at the bottom of the league tend to use more players in a season than clubs at the top.  Thus in theory you would be successful if you limited your squad!  Of course that makes no sense - what happens lower down the league by and large is that when  you lose games you try and get new players in to help turn it around.  Fans are clamouring for that - 'change it' they cry, 'we've got to get in x, y and z in the window'.    Budgets are never set in stone - because income and expenditure as forecast will not exactly pan out as projected.  If you are losing games and have spent all your playing budget - what do you do?  Just sit tight or make changes - in my experience most clubs choose the latter and often that costs more same as if you change manager.  I doubt teams budget for a manager change at the start of each season - but that brings pay off costs and new hire costs that often encompass a coaching team change as well.  Thus you need to raise more money to cover that beyond the originally envisaged budget spend.  

 

On the youth side - our real good history of producing players stemmed from Gordon McDougall's focus on youth.  That to a degree was subsidised by the monies he made from stock cars plus the fact that the SFA provided grant funding.  That grant funding is being diverted ever more to bigger clubs as per Project Brave - hence why the Fife clubs formed FEFA as smaller standalone Academies would and have felt the pinch

[NELLY]

2 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Player recruitment numbers are a chicken and egg situation - clubs at the bottom of the league tend to use more players in a season than clubs at the top.  Thus in theory you would be successful if you limited your squad!  Of course that makes no sense - what happens lower down the league by and large is that when  you lose games you try and get new players in to help turn it around.  Fans are clamouring for that - 'change it' they cry, 'we've got to get in x, y and z in the window'.    Budgets are never set in stone - because income and expenditure as forecast will not exactly pan out as projected.  If you are losing games and have spent all your playing budget - what do you do?  Just sit tight or make changes - in my experience most clubs choose the latter and often that costs more same as if you change manager.  I doubt teams budget for a manager change at the start of each season - but that brings pay off costs and new hire costs that often encompass a coaching team change as well.  Thus you need to raise more money to cover that beyond the originally envisaged budget spend.  

 

On the youth side - our real good history of producing players stemmed from Gordon McDougall's focus on youth.  That to a degree was subsidised by the monies he made from stock cars plus the fact that the SFA provided grant funding.  That grant funding is being diverted ever more to bigger clubs as per Project Brave - hence why the Fife clubs formed FEFA as smaller standalone Academies would and have felt the pinch

Agree in some sense however when we sign almost entirely a new team/squad using budget we have and we are bottom of the league (thus as you say try improve by signing more) the key question is why are we not getting it right at the start of the season when a new team/squad is assembled we MUST get this right. Thats where I think bollan will do ok if we are to have a re-haul next season if by hope we stay up.

This club cannot afford to keep having to make changes later in season when we realise our squad we put together is no good. It has happened now since Nish and maybe before. I commend the efforts of everyone to try help out (it did last season in a sense with carrick being brought in) Again the pay off costs etc shouldnt happen if we get the base right initially through a decent appointment of manager/coach who then can sign the correct players under the correct budget etc.. Easier said than done but it is achievable as we have done it before numerous times.

Again youth side you are pointing out towards money which I understand however im talking about the overall calibre of we do have for our U20S. Connelly is a top prospect.l Just remember when we had injuries etc there would always be a young lad ready to step in from our u20s it doesnt seem we have that nowadays.

Understand budgets are not set in stone. We need to try our best with what we have to attract better calibre so for example player x for us just now is £150 a week what other players are available and willing to come to us for same if not a little less that would improve us over that player. This is where bollan needs to step up. Again this would all be for start of season when players contracts are ended. There is no doubt that this squad is not good enough and we seem to sign much much more players than other teams and this cannot continue as im sure from a finance perspective you agree.

A lot of issues but not insurmountable. Mone the Cowden

[Cowden Cowboy]

Agree in some sense however when we sign almost entirely a new team/squad using budget we have and we are bottom of the league (thus as you say try improve by signing more) the key question is why are we not getting it right at the start of the season when a new team/squad is assembled we MUST get this right. Thats where I think bollan will do ok if we are to have a re-haul next season if by hope we stay up.
This club cannot afford to keep having to make changes later in season when we realise our squad we put together is no good. It has happened now since Nish and maybe before. I commend the efforts of everyone to try help out (it did last season in a sense with carrick being brought in) Again the pay off costs etc shouldnt happen if we get the base right initially through a decent appointment of manager/coach who then can sign the correct players under the correct budget etc.. Easier said than done but it is achievable as we have done it before numerous times.
Again youth side you are pointing out towards money which I understand however im talking about the overall calibre of we do have for our U20S. Connelly is a top prospect.l Just remember when we had injuries etc there would always be a young lad ready to step in from our u20s it doesnt seem we have that nowadays.
Understand budgets are not set in stone. We need to try our best with what we have to attract better calibre so for example player x for us just now is £150 a week what other players are available and willing to come to us for same if not a little less that would improve us over that player. This is where bollan needs to step up. Again this would all be for start of season when players contracts are ended. There is no doubt that this squad is not good enough and we seem to sign much much more players than other teams and this cannot continue as im sure from a finance perspective you agree.
A lot of issues but not insurmountable. Mone the Cowden

Colin Nish and Billy Brown both had the same problem they came in late on each occasion and had time constraints re signings. Now season starts on say 15 July with no trialists allowed in Betfred and loans are few and far between so early in season. Danny Lennon did a good job assembling a team - Colin Cameron inherited a good squad established by Danny and augmented by Jimmy Nicholl

[big al]

1 hour ago, Muzza81 said:

Of course it would help us to put a more competitive team on the park, that isn't what I am saying at all. I am talking about how will that help us long term. You could argue more fans > higher wages > better team (not always) > promotion > more exposure. But we have been there and our off field fortunes haven't taken an upturn.

The number of people through the turnstiles should not be something that is important right now as we have nothing to offer these people. Get them through and I can assure you they wont hang about for long.

The point wasn’t we need 100 extra fans at next home games. More that we just don’t have enough fans and club135 is just pie in the sky with such a small support.

we have what we have so have to accept it, stop paying what we can’t afford in wages, stop signing far too many players and just get on with it. I realise this would have helped us if had this policy 3 years ago but it’s done now.