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Auld Heid

Linlithgow Rose 2017-18

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2 minutes ago, GordonS said:
21 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said:
There is no doubt the EOS is the way to go.

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say, unless you can literally see the future. Of course there is doubt. You might be convinced, but don't presume those who aren't are stupid.

I'm pretty sure he' not saying they are stupid just that they are wrong

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I'm pretty sure he' not saying they are stupid just that they are wrong
He's saying "there's no doubt". If there's no doubt then he's saying it's not a matter of opinion, when that's obviously exactly what it is. He ought to have a bit more respect for people who don't share his opinion.

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Fuzzy was giving his opinion as an individual so when he says "there is no doubt" it should be taken as read that it is his opinion and not an absolute FACT. This pyramid palavah is bringing out the worst in some folk. #Peace2All

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57 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Fuzzy was giving his opinion as an individual so when he says "there is no doubt" it should be taken as read that it is his opinion and not an absolute FACT. This pyramid palavah is bringing out the worst in some folk. #Peace2All

Isn't it just.

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:
2 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:
There is no doubt the EOS is the way to go.

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say, unless you can literally see the future. Of course there is doubt. You might be convinced, but don't presume those who aren't are stupid.

Anyone who is blinkered enough to think that staying he the juniors is the way forward needs to take a long hard look at themselves and their fellow dinosaurs !
The juniors is dead.  Killed of by lack of vision from those in charge, especially those in the East !!  2018 and still getting games a week or two in advance 
a national cup competition that has no prize money nor sponsor !   Lets hope somebody somewhere bangs the heads of the Rose committee together and sorts out this 
nonsense. Get an EOS application in now FFS  

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He's saying "there's no doubt". If there's no doubt then he's saying it's not a matter of opinion, when that's obviously exactly what it is. He ought to have a bit more respect for people who don't share his opinion.


As an ardent opponent of all things Pyramid - I have listened intently to the arguments.

Every argument I could raise was met with a reasoned reply that I personally have 'No Doubt' that it's the best available option for Linlithgow.

I have also talked widely to fellow supporters and shared views. Most are now like minded that it's the best available option.

The SJFA have let their members down badly and have failed due to their own apathy towards change.

Staying in the East potentially means many of our games will be north of the forth. The better teams in our league will have all gone.

Financially there are no strong reasons to stay either but plenty for going. Playing a Ross County saw a 50k return.

Winning the Scottish junior cup would bring 11k. The League is less than 1k only the Fife and Lothian would be financially worth winning.

I can't find any reason to support my starting view of staying Junior. But plenty for going.

All about opinions








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2 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Fuzzy was giving his opinion as an individual so when he says "there is no doubt" it should be taken as read that it is his opinion and not an absolute FACT. This pyramid palavah is bringing out the worst in some folk. #Peace2All

You're not kidding. Zealots posting obsessively on one issue, calling anyone who sees it differently a dinosaur. No attempt to consider that there might be a legitimate alternative point of view, just mockery. All it does is turn folk off and drive them away.

Does Burnie even watch football?

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1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

I can't find any reason to support my starting view of staying Junior. But plenty for going.

 

I can foresee a possible future in which we're in a league with Edusport Academy, Cumbernauld Colts, BSC "Glasgow", East Kilbride, Bonnytoun Thistle, Edinburgh Uni and Stirling Uni and getting much lower gates for those games than we do in the Superleague. I can see us taking far fewer supporters to those away games than we normally do, because with the possible exceptions of Edinburgh Uni and EK they'll have less atmosphere than a game up at that freezing ground at Carluke in January. Midweek. At 3am. In a blizzard.

In the realm of all possible outcomes, are you saying that this isn't even possible?

BTW, I was at a Bonnytoun Thistle cup match a couple of weeks ago. There were 12 spectators, and other than me I think they were all only there because they're friends and family of players. I have huge respect for what Bonnytoun do in developing young players but that's not something I want to pay to watch. 

Looking at the benefits and risks I think we ought to go too, and as soon as possible. But saying that there is NO REASON to favour staying is a bit of an insult to those who see it differently. I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

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This summer in the West Region will see the end of the old Central and Ayrshire district leagues. Now replaced with 4 all in leagues of 16 or 3 leagues of 16 and one of 15, Dunipace leaving for the EoS in the summer. You could add that the West Region are almost gearing up for any change. Clydebank have stated they want to go Senior. Probably wonder what all the fuss was about in a few years time.

Personally looking forward to Hamilton Accies playing Larkhall Thistle away.

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9 hours ago, GordonS said:
I can foresee a possible future in which we're in a league with Edusport Academy, Cumbernauld Colts, BSC "Glasgow", East Kilbride, Bonnytoun Thistle, Edinburgh Uni and Stirling Uni and getting much lower gates for those games than we do in the Superleague. I can see us taking far fewer supporters to those away games than we normally do, because with the possible exceptions of Edinburgh Uni and EK they'll have less atmosphere than a game up at that freezing ground at Carluke in January. Midweek. At 3am. In a blizzard.

In the realm of all possible outcomes, are you saying that this isn't even possible?

BTW, I was at a Bonnytoun Thistle cup match a couple of weeks ago. There were 12 spectators, and other than me I think they were all only there because they're friends and family of players. I have huge respect for what Bonnytoun do in developing young players but that's not something I want to pay to watch. 

Looking at the benefits and risks I think we ought to go too, and as soon as possible. But saying that there is NO REASON to favour staying is a bit of an insult to those who see it differently. I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

 

I am desperate for someone to present me a reason to back my original view.

Our home crowds are all Linlithgow with very few visitors other than Boness and Bonnyrigg both who are leaving. Last night it was mostly our fans most away games are the same.

Watching the Rose play any of the teams remaining holds the same appeal as playing the teams you reference.  But to not have games against the teams I reference would make staying worse.

20 years ago I couldn't imagine not having feisty affairs against Whitburn.  They chose unwisely at that time not to join the super league. I see a lot of similarities in that decision to our current stance.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Auld Heid
..

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7 hours ago, GordonS said:

I can foresee a possible future in which we're in a league with Edusport Academy, Cumbernauld Colts, BSC "Glasgow", East Kilbride, Bonnytoun Thistle, Edinburgh Uni and Stirling Uni and getting much lower gates for those games than we do in the Superleague. I can see us taking far fewer supporters to those away games than we normally do, because with the possible exceptions of Edinburgh Uni and EK they'll have less atmosphere than a game up at that freezing ground at Carluke in January. Midweek. At 3am. In a blizzard.

In the realm of all possible outcomes, are you saying that this isn't even possible?

BTW, I was at a Bonnytoun Thistle cup match a couple of weeks ago. There were 12 spectators, and other than me I think they were all only there because they're friends and family of players. I have huge respect for what Bonnytoun do in developing young players but that's not something I want to pay to watch. 

Looking at the benefits and risks I think we ought to go too, and as soon as possible. But saying that there is NO REASON to favour staying is a bit of an insult to those who see it differently. I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

Do you not seriously think some of these teams will be relegated out long before LR get anywhere near the LL? Bonnyton are nowhere near being licenced to get out the South yet. There's an awful lot of 'if my aunt had balls.." to this.

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You're not kidding. Zealots posting obsessively on one issue, calling anyone who sees it differently a dinosaur. No attempt to consider that there might be a legitimate alternative point of view, just mockery. All it does is turn folk off and drive them away.
Does Burnie even watch football?

You've gone full Isa and lost all sense of reasoning. Why the need to get personal?

There are no zealots, there are people who believe that moving into the Pyramid is the right thing to do and will argue that point. You are free to counter it.

Not so long ago you said Linlithgow in the LL was a great thing, you've changed your tune.

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I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

One that doesnt call into question how many games someone attends? 70-80 a season BTW.

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8 hours ago, GordonS said:

I can foresee a possible future in which we're in a league with Edusport Academy, Cumbernauld Colts, BSC "Glasgow", East Kilbride, Bonnytoun Thistle, Edinburgh Uni and Stirling Uni and getting much lower gates for those games than we do in the Superleague. I can see us taking far fewer supporters to those away games than we normally do, because with the possible exceptions of Edinburgh Uni and EK they'll have less atmosphere than a game up at that freezing ground at Carluke in January. Midweek. At 3am. In a blizzard.

In the realm of all possible outcomes, are you saying that this isn't even possible?

BTW, I was at a Bonnytoun Thistle cup match a couple of weeks ago. There were 12 spectators, and other than me I think they were all only there because they're friends and family of players. I have huge respect for what Bonnytoun do in developing young players but that's not something I want to pay to watch. 

Looking at the benefits and risks I think we ought to go too, and as soon as possible. But saying that there is NO REASON to favour staying is a bit of an insult to those who see it differently. I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

Yeah pick all the worst teams you can ? 
Never mind the fact that in a few years time the LL could well  be Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Spartans, Whitehill, East Kilbride, East Stirling and thats not to mention of a west tier 6 league appears and then the LL could include some of the top west sides as well... 
Stop thinking like a dinosaur and you will see its the only way to go now....or slowly die and become amateur, It seems to me the people holding this back are all of the OAP brigade, the one's who wont be around to deal with the mess left if we don't go.  

The worrying thing for me is none of the Rose committee will even speak to you about it or discuss it... They are failing their members  

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47 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Do you not seriously think some of these teams will be relegated out long before LR get anywhere near the LL? Bonnyton are nowhere near being licenced to get out the South yet. There's an awful lot of 'if my aunt had balls.." to this.

Spot On. As I put on a previous post In 3 years time the LL could more than likely have 1 or 2 current SPFL sides, top 6 clubs in the current LL, top 4 ex East region Juniors, top 4 ex West Juniors if as expected a WOS Feeder is formed. It will be a working pyramid with everyone finding their level and as each season passes the LL and the feeders will get stronger and we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

The EOS and WOS top divisions would also be very competitive with the Cup competitions throwing up some tasty ties each season.

Going by the minutes from 2013 a full pyramid was the desire from the SFA/SPFL by 2016 under 1 body, with clubs Licenced and a non league Scottish Cup, it’s 2018 and through the actions of clubs in the East, by 2019 we could have that 2013 plan  implemented.

SFA Licenced, Fixture Lists, No backlog of games as the LL and EOS have proven, U20s, Rivalries being kept with new ones made, Big open Non League Scott Cup, Entry into Big Scott Cup, Betfred and Irn Bru Cups, no glass ceiling.

I cant see any negatives in this at all, saying someone who has also been brought up steeped in Junior football since I was a kid. I like many others can see the bigger picture of how it will look.

 

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8 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Personally looking forward to Hamilton Accies playing Larkhall Thistle away.

Think you need to come up with a new example. After staying up (albeit probably for the last time given how many key players have either already left or are now leaving) and securing new sponsors Accies should be OK again financially. Clyde playing Rutherglen Glencairn would be the one I would use. Saw an interesting list of who could be in a new WoS league on the nonleague matters forum yesterday from a poster who usually seems to have his finger on the pulse of what's happening:

http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=873935#873935

Realistically, what WILL happen from 2019 is that a West Senior League will be formed with around a dozen defectors from the West Juniors, including some very big clubs*. These clubs will move quickly towards licensing. The remaining West Junior clubs may continue to operate independently under the auspices of the SJFA, but without the carrot of Scottish Cup participation for the Champions. .......
* West defectors could include Kilwinning Rangers, Girvan, Beith, Port Glasgow, Petershill, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy, Clydebank, Cumnock, Carluke, Gartcairn, Rossvale, Benburb, St Rochs + Bonnyton Thistle, Glasgow University

 

 

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1 hour ago, kefc said:

Spot On. As I put on a previous post In 3 years time the LL could more than likely have 1 or 2 current SPFL sides, top 6 clubs in the current LL, top 4 ex East region Juniors, top 4 ex West Juniors if as expected a WOS Feeder is formed. It will be a working pyramid with everyone finding their level and as each season passes the LL and the feeders will get stronger and we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

The EOS and WOS top divisions would also be very competitive with the Cup competitions throwing up some tasty ties each season.

Going by the minutes from 2013 a full pyramid was the desire from the SFA/SPFL by 2016 under 1 body, with clubs Licenced and a non league Scottish Cup, it’s 2018 and through the actions of clubs in the East, by 2019 we could have that 2013 plan  implemented.

SFA Licenced, Fixture Lists, No backlog of games as the LL and EOS have proven, U20s, Rivalries being kept with new ones made, Big open Non League Scott Cup, Entry into Big Scott Cup, Betfred and Irn Bru Cups, no glass ceiling.

I cant see any negatives in this at all, saying someone who has also been brought up steeped in Junior football since I was a kid. I like many others can see the bigger picture of how it will look.

 

Even just thinking about it, I don't think Bonnyton (in my example) will ever escape the South unless automatic promotion for the SoS comes in - the EoS side is going to be significantly stronger than the SoS candidate for the forseeable. I'd put decent money on HRA never getting back up from EoS either. Things have altered to such an extent it's game-changing for the LL. 

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28 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Even just thinking about it, I don't think Bonnyton (in my example) will ever escape the South unless automatic promotion for the SoS comes in - the EoS side is going to be significantly stronger than the SoS candidate for the forseeable. I'd put decent money on HRA never getting back up from EoS either. Things have altered to such an extent it's game-changing for the LL. 

They could do it if the EoS champions were unlicensed, the same way that Edusport went up.  They'll need to be quick though, the proposed WoSL will be another obstacle.

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6 minutes ago, gwd440 said:

They could do it if the EoS champions were unlicensed, the same way that Edusport went up.  They'll need to be quick though, the proposed WoSL will be another obstacle.

Yes, but they're also unlicensed and not sure how close they are to getting the necessary done at Harriet Road to change that... My feeling would be that by time BT were licensed, more in EoS would be too. You also have factor in that every relegation from LL takes another Licensed club doon.

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