Rangers European Tour 2017/18

[Topscot]

Get the passports oot

[Romeo]

[Glenconner]

Might even find a manager.

[killiefan27]

People say we're in danger of returning to the 1930s.

I thought they were being hysterical, but now we'll have **** marching across Europe once again. Scary times.

[naegoodinthedark]

C'mon now, everyone knows that's not Rangers fans causing bother. They're clearly (insert name of English team) fans trying to give them a bad name.

[Greenlantern]

[Menzel]

3 hours ago, Topscot said:

 

Get the passports oot

 

For confiscation? 

[bennett]

5 hours ago, Romeo said:

Didn't Celtic fans recently cause some mayhem in Amsterdam, best get off your high horse.

[Romeo]

9 minutes ago, bennett said:

Didn't Celtic fans recently cause some mayhem in Amsterdam, best get off your high horse.

"What about 'ra Selik by ra way..!!"

[HibeeJibee]

9 hours ago, Topscot said:

Get the passports oot

Bala Town, IMO.

[falkirkthebigclub]

In the interests of your scummy fans not offending the locals, I think UEFA would be well advised to draw you against a 'Northern European' nation.

[Bobby Skidmarks]

Didn't Celtic fans recently cause some mayhem in Amsterdam, best get off your high horse.

Don't worry, we know you weren't in Manchester.

[kingjoey]

6 hours ago, bennett said:

Didn't Celtic fans recently cause some mayhem in Amsterdam, best get off your high horse.

What you say doesn't stop these Rangers fans being total tossers.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

What you say doesn't stop these Rangers fans being total tossers.

Stops romeo throwing stones in his glass hoose.

 

[D.A.F.C]

Into Europe in your first season ever in the top flight. Impressive.

[Afrojim]

As you're a new club that has never played in Europe before you'll only have 20% of Scotland's overall coefficient as ranking points to determine your seeding. Likely to be seeded in the first qualifying round, probably 44th-46th seed out of 50 seeded clubs. Draws for the 1st and 2nd qualifying rounds are made at the same time, so you might get lucky and get an unseeded team in the 2nd round - provided they beat a seeded team in the 1st round. Will definitely be unseeded from the 3rd qualifying round onward, will be very difficult to qualify. Rangers are currently ranked by UEFA as lesser than teams from Moldova, Estonia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Malta, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Kazakhstan, Hungary, Northern Ireland, Macedonia etc...

[craigkillie]

Rangers' coefficient has nothing to do with whether or not UEFA consider them to be a new club.

The UEFA coefficient system is based on a 5 year cycle, so any club which hasn't appeared in Europe in that period will get a rating equal to 20% of Scotland's national coefficient.  Killie have played in Europe a ton of times, but we'd also get given that same rating since our last foray into Europe was 16 years ago.

[Afrojim]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Rangers' coefficient has nothing to do with whether or not UEFA consider them to be a new club.

The UEFA coefficient system is based on a 5 year cycle, so any club which hasn't appeared in Europe in that period will get a rating equal to 20% of Scotland's national coefficient.  Killie have played in Europe a ton of times, but we'd also get given that same rating since our last foray into Europe was 16 years ago.

UEFA, FIFA, The European Club Association all confirmed that in regards to "sporting continuity" then Rangers are indeed the same club and allowed to retain their history. Even the Advertising Standards Authority ruled that Rangers were allowed to continue using the phrase "Scotland's most successful club" after some Celtic fans (with frankly too much time on their hands) made a complaint.

My reference to Rangers as a "new club" was a reference to UEFA's financial and licensing rules which prohibited Rangers from participating in Europe for three seasons (2012-13, 13-14, 14-15) as the "new club/company" had only been admitted as members of the SFA in 2012. Had Rangers qualified for Europe last season (15-16) then UEFA probably would have removed any coefficient points from them due to this breach of licensing rules, as they would have technically been considered a new club (specifically in regards to these rules) and therefore never participated in Europe in that specific form.Clubs also have to supply UEFA with the previous three years financial accounts, something which Rangers could not do as technically they were only formed in 2012. A similar scenario is likely to arise should Parma qualify for Europe within five years of the club being re-founded in 2015 - the "new club/company" are prohibited from qualifying for Europe for the first three seasons and in the fourth would likely have any coefficient points removed, not that they would have any anyway, other than Italy's base 20% ranking. The current Parma are considered to be a continuation of previous incarnations and therefore the same club.

Here's the rule from the SFA rulebook on UEFA Licensing...

"This membership must have been in place at the start of the licence season for a minimum period of three consecutive years. Any alteration to the club’s legal form or company structure (including, for example, changing its headquarters, name or club colours, or transferring stakeholdings between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the detriment of the integrity of a competition is deemed as an interruption of membership within the meaning of this provision"

For me to refer to Rangers as a "new club" is technically the correct terminology BUT only in regards to them participating in European competition - it was the technicality that I was referring to - as I had been referring to technical things such as seeding and coefficient points. National Governing Bodies are responsible for determining whether or not clubs which go bankrupt are actually new clubs - I don't believe the SFA have declared Rangers a new club and therefore in terms of "sporting continuity" retain their history and are regarded as the same club. In England if a club goes bankrupt and a phoenix club is started to replace them then, by FA rules, they are considered a new club not a continuation - so it differs based upon the rules in individual countries. 

UEFA's terminology of "new club/company" probably doesn't help the situation in Scotland as large numbers of football fans here don't seem to quite understand that what UEFA is actually referring to and what they think/hope UEFA is referring to are entirely different things.

[craigkillie]

7 minutes ago, Afrojim said:

 

My reference to Rangers as a "new club" was a reference to UEFA's financial and licensing rules which prohibited Rangers from participating in Europe for three seasons (2012-13, 13-14, 14-15) as the "new club/company" had only been admitted as members of the SFA in 2012. Had Rangers qualified for Europe last season (15-16) then UEFA probably would have removed any coefficient points from them due to this breach of licensing rules, as they would have technically been considered a new club (specifically in regards to these rules) and therefore never participated in Europe in that specific form.Clubs also have to supply UEFA with the previous three years financial accounts, something which Rangers could not do as technically they were only formed in 2012. A similar scenario is likely to arise should Parma qualify for Europe within five years of the club being re-founded in 2015 - the "new club/company" are prohibited from qualifying for Europe for the first three seasons and in the fourth would likely have any coefficient points removed, not that they would have any anyway, other than Italy's base 20% ranking. The current Parma are considered to be a continuation of previous incarnations and therefore the same club.

 

This is all entirely speculative.  Derry City went through a similar process a few years ago, and in 2013/14 they were given a coefficient which included points earned by the "oldco" Derry.

[Afrojim]

11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

This is all entirely speculative.  Derry City went through a similar process a few years ago, and in 2013/14 they were given a coefficient which included points earned by the "oldco" Derry.

Derry City were expelled from the League of Ireland in 2009 and liquidated. The new Derry City were founded in 2010, crucially this was before the introduction of Uefa Financial Fair Play regulations which were approved in 2010 and first implemented in 2011. Derry City cannot be used as a precedent as the current rules didn't apply to them in this instance, they couldn't be retrospectively punished and have coefficient points removed for breaching rules that came into existence after the fact. Numerous football clubs went bankrupt prior to 2010 as a means of restructuring the club/company and avoiding the payment of outstanding debts without any real punishment from UEFA.