The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[Guest]

I hope you are chipping in...

Not been asked

[Lex]

Hartlepool will be paying Davis far more than we can, we never really had a realistic chance of getting him.  Nice thought though.

A new central defender has to be a priority now, it's certainly the area of the field we look weakest.   McKenzie is very injury prone, Buchanan was playing part time last year and Baird is an up and coming youngster.

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

Hartlepool will be paying Davis far more than we can, we never really had a realistic chance of getting him.  Nice thought though.

A new central defender has to be a priority now, it's certainly the area of the field we look weakest.   McKenzie is very injury prone, Buchanan was playing part time last year and Baird is an up and coming youngster.

A few times I've read this now, Buchanan may have been playing part time with us (and for most of his career) but he's not a stranger to full-time football.  He played with Dunfermline full-time and by all accounts was one of their better performers in a honking Pars side, after that season he got a move to us in the Championship and it was widely accepted that he was a good player. He's now made the step up and I genuinely don't see Buchanan as the risk some are making out here, he's played at this level in a team which spends the majority of it's time defending and he's done well.

[Young gun]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

A few times I've read this now, Buchanan may have been playing part time with us (and for most of his career) but he's not a stranger to full-time football.  He played with Dunfermline full-time and by all accounts was one of their better performers in a honking Pars side, after that season he got a move to us in the Championship and it was widely accepted that he was a good player. He's now made the step up and I genuinely don't see Buchanan as the risk some are making out here, he's played at this level in a team which spends the majority of it's time defending and he's done well.

I agree Moonster.

Any Saints fan who watched Buchanan last season should remember his solid defending.

He will do just fine

[Lex]

Just now, The Moonster said:

A few times I've read this now, Buchanan may have been playing part time with us (and for most of his career) but he's not a stranger to full-time football.  He played with Dunfermline full-time and by all accounts was one of their better performers in a honking Pars side, after that season he got a move to us in the Championship and it was widely accepted that he was a good player. He's now made the step up and I genuinely don't see Buchanan as the risk some are making out here, he's played at this level in a team which spends the majority of it's time defending and he's done well.

Ach he might turn out to be fine.  We've just been burned several times over the past few years from signing players who were good for a part time club and couldn't do it for us.  Scott Agnew being one example.

Most don't make it but some do, hopefully Buchanan is one of the few.

[Colkitto]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

A few times I've read this now, Buchanan may have been playing part time with us (and for most of his career) but he's not a stranger to full-time football.  He played with Dunfermline full-time and by all accounts was one of their better performers in a honking Pars side, after that season he got a move to us in the Championship and it was widely accepted that he was a good player. He's now made the step up and I genuinely don't see Buchanan as the risk some are making out here, he's played at this level in a team which spends the majority of it's time defending and he's done well.

I've always rated Buchanan and had suggested we go for him. 

[Stu]

45 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

A few times I've read this now, Buchanan may have been playing part time with us (and for most of his career) but he's not a stranger to full-time football.  He played with Dunfermline full-time and by all accounts was one of their better performers in a honking Pars side, after that season he got a move to us in the Championship and it was widely accepted that he was a good player. He's now made the step up and I genuinely don't see Buchanan as the risk some are making out here, he's played at this level in a team which spends the majority of it's time defending and he's done well.

I wouldn't worry about it, it's mainly Lex who has an issue as he seems to think being a part-time player is some sort of disability.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Stu

[The Moonster]

34 minutes ago, Lex said:

Ach he might turn out to be fine.  We've just been burned several times over the past few years from signing players who were good for a part time club and couldn't do it for us.  Scott Agnew being one example.

Most don't make it but some do, hopefully Buchanan is one of the few.

I can understand having some concern since your previous forays into the part time market haven't been entirely fruitful, I would say that Buchanan is a different situation than Agnew though. Agnew was great for us, he could play a pass and had a great left peg and when we let him play his game in midfield he was great for a part time side in this league. A lot of us thought moving to full-time was maybe a step too far, certainly a team with ambitions of winning the league was too far. St Mirren fans were obviously looking for him to be the dominating creative player that you'd hoped for, but he was never one for dominating games week in week out. 

Buchanan is a no nonsense defender and his style of play equips him for full-time football better than Agnews did, IMO. He's a monster of a guy and he has a bit of pace about him. Gregor will have learned a lot playing at this level in the last 2 years since he left his full-time deal with the Pars too and I'm sure he'll be determined to make sure this deal doesn't end in disappointment too.

[Coventry Saint]

TBH, @Lex, I think it's CF that's our priority. 

We've got Sutton and Stewart as target men; Reilly and Smith as auxiliary strikers/wide men/AMs. 

Starting the season with that wouldn't be a disaster, but wouldn't fill me with a tonne of confidence about mounting a promotion challenge.

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

TBH, @Lex, I think it's CF that's our priority. 

We've got Sutton and Stewart as target men; Reilly and Smith as auxiliary strikers/wide men/AMs. 

Starting the season with that wouldn't be a disaster, but wouldn't fill me with a tonne of confidence about mounting a promotion challenge.

Agreed. Jack has confirmed several times that another forward is our absolute priority. After that, I'd imagine it will go centre half and then holding mid. 

[Lex]

52 minutes ago, Stu said:

I wouldn't worry about it, it's mainly Lex who has an issue as he seems to think being a part-time player is some sort of disability.

Well its just a fact that most part time players don't make it when they go to full time level.  That's why they're part time in the first place.  Of course there is a few diamonds in there who can make the transition, Darren McGregor being one.  But for every one of him you'll get four or five who can't cut it.  We've signed 4 this summer, if 1 of them gets a second full time contract at us or elsewhere we'll have done alright.

21 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

TBH, @Lex, I think it's CF that's our priority. 

We've got Sutton and Stewart as target men; Reilly and Smith as auxiliary strikers/wide men/AMs. 

Starting the season with that wouldn't be a disaster, but wouldn't fill me with a tonne of confidence about mounting a promotion challenge.

Well as you said we have four centre forwards ( I see Clarkson's still showing as in the first team on official the website aswell, so maybe five ).   But we have three centre halves.  We are going to be playing at least two centre backs every week, so we certainly need more cover there.  Squad is in decent enough shape compared to previous years at this time right enough.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said:

TBH, @Lex, I think it's CF that's our priority. 

We've got Sutton and Stewart as target men; Reilly and Smith as auxiliary strikers/wide men/AMs. 

Starting the season with that wouldn't be a disaster, but wouldn't fill me with a tonne of confidence about mounting a promotion challenge.

This is the main concern for me at the moment. Sutton seemed to be relegated to a bit part player as last season went on. Reilly scored once last year and Smith isn't a striker. Stewart had a decent strike rate but had a few injury problems and was at a lower level. Could definitely do with one more player, be that Loy, Ryan or someone else.

26 minutes ago, Lex said:

Well its just a fact that most part time players don't make it when they go to full time level.  That's why they're part time in the first place.  Of course there is a few diamonds in there who can make the transition, Darren McGregor being one.  But for every one of him you'll get four or five who can't cut it.  We've signed 4 this summer, if 1 of them gets a second full time contract at us or elsewhere we'll have done alright.

Well as you said we have four centre forwards ( I see Clarkson's still showing as in the first team on official the website aswell, so maybe five ).   But we have three centre halves.  We are going to be playing at least two centre backs every week, so we certainly need more cover there.  Squad is in decent enough shape compared to previous years at this time right enough.

Given the amount of dross we've signed from full-time clubs in the last few years I'm more than happy for talented part-timers to get a shot.

And don't think you can really include Clarkson as a fifth striker considering he'll be lucky to kick a ball all season.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Stu

[Coventry Saint]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Well as you said we have four centre forwards ( I see Clarkson's still showing as in the first team on official the website aswell, so maybe five ).   But we have three centre halves.  We are going to be playing at least two centre backs every week, so we certainly need more cover there.  Squad is in decent enough shape compared to previous years at this time right enough.

I think the difference there is you're talking about cover at CH. If our first choice was Buchanan and Gary Mac, with Baird as first choice back up, then I'd be reasonably happy. The point I was making was that, actually, we haven't got four CFs. We've got two, and one is Sutton who won't/can't play the games we need.

I'm on about the signing of a proper first-choice 20-goal striker, and IMO that is more important right now than a centre half to sign as cover.

[Lex]

Just now, Coventry Saint said:

I think the difference there is you're talking about cover at CH. If our first choice was Buchanan and Gary Mac, with Baird as first choice back up, then I'd be reasonably happy. The point I was making was that, actually, we haven't got four CFs. We've got two, and one is Sutton who won't/can't play the games we need.

I'm on about the signing of a proper first-choice 20-goal striker, and IMO that is more important right now than a centre half to sign as cover.

Sutton scored 13 goals last term - more goals than any of our strikers since Thommo - despite spending most of the season on the bench.   If we play him regularly he will be the 15-20 goal season striker we need.  For some reason however Ross doesn't fancy him so I expect we will be signing another striker. 

[NorthBank]

18 minutes ago, Lex said:

Sutton scored 13 goals last term - more goals than any of our strikers since Thommo - despite spending most of the season on the bench.   If we play him regularly he will be the 15-20 goal season striker we need.  For some reason however Ross doesn't fancy him so I expect we will be signing another striker. 

Rubbish. Sutton started in 24 League games and came on on as a sub in 11 games - 33 appearances and scored a grand total of 7 goals in these League games. No goals against any of the top teams. Only scored goals in 3 games that were significant in getting us points (draws against Dumbarton and Morton and the first goal against Ayr) - 5 points in total thanks to Sutton. In the seven games after the Ayr game he never even had an attempt on goal in any of the games. Pretty shit for your main striker. 

Stelios's goals were significant in getting us 6 points from only 3 goals in 6 starts and 6 sub appearances. Better than Sutton.

Did Sutton have any goals in the St Mirren Goal of the season - no. For a big guy was he a threat at corners - no.

Ross quickly realised that Sutton was not a striker that could do it for us and only played him when Loy, Smith or Morgan were injured. When these guys were all fit Sutton was on the bench.

There are a lot of rose tinted glasses surrounding Sutton from the St Mirren support - he is living on past exploits like Thommo's last two seasons with us. If we want to win the League by winning League games then we need a regular goal-scorer. And that Ain't John Sutton.

[buddie06smfc]

I think the difference there is you're talking about cover at CH. If our first choice was Buchanan and Gary Mac, with Baird as first choice back up, then I'd be reasonably happy.

Don't see Baird as back up at all. During the run-in, after Davis' injury, Baird was tremendous. Everyone is always quick to put the boot in when he makes a mistake. I don't think we missed Davis all that much after his injury and that was all down to the performances of Baird. Baird & MacKenzie should continue to be first choice.

[buddie06smfc]

Rubbish. Sutton started in 24 League games and came on on as a sub in 11 games - 33 appearances and scored a grand total of 7 goals in these League games. No goals against any of the top teams. Only scored goals in 3 games that were significant in getting us points (draws against Dumbarton and Morton and the first goal against Ayr) - 5 points in total thanks to Sutton. In the seven games after the Ayr game he never even had an attempt on goal in any of the games. Pretty shit for your main striker. 
Stelios's goals were significant in getting us 6 points from only 3 goals in 6 starts and 6 sub appearances. Better than Sutton.
Did Sutton have any goals in the St Mirren Goal of the season - no. For a big guy was he a threat at corners - no.
Ross quickly realised that Sutton was not a striker that could do it for us and only played him when Loy, Smith or Morgan were injured. When these guys were all fit Sutton was on the bench.
There are a lot of rose tinted glasses surrounding Sutton from the St Mirren support - he is living on past exploits like Thommo's last two seasons with us. If we want to win the League by winning League games then we need a regular goal-scorer. And that Ain't John Sutton.

If you're counting Stelios' goal in the win against Morton as winning us points then you surely have to do the same with Sutton. Which would be a shot on target after the Ayr game and a goal against one of the top teams.

Chat of winning the league is very premature, our signings don't exactly suggest we are building a championship winning team. Time will tell.

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Rubbish. Sutton started in 24 League games and came on on as a sub in 11 games - 33 appearances and scored a grand total of 7 goals in these League games. No goals against any of the top teams. Only scored goals in 3 games that were significant in getting us points (draws against Dumbarton and Morton and the first goal against Ayr) - 5 points in total thanks to Sutton. In the seven games after the Ayr game he never even had an attempt on goal in any of the games. Pretty shit for your main striker. 

Stelios's goals were significant in getting us 6 points from only 3 goals in 6 starts and 6 sub appearances. Better than Sutton.

Did Sutton have any goals in the St Mirren Goal of the season - no. For a big guy was he a threat at corners - no.

Ross quickly realised that Sutton was not a striker that could do it for us and only played him when Loy, Smith or Morgan were injured. When these guys were all fit Sutton was on the bench.

There are a lot of rose tinted glasses surrounding Sutton from the St Mirren support - he is living on past exploits like Thommo's last two seasons with us. If we want to win the League by winning League games then we need a regular goal-scorer. And that Ain't John Sutton.

Well played.

[Lex]

22 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Rubbish. Sutton started in 24 League games and came on on as a sub in 11 games - 33 appearances and scored a grand total of 7 goals in these League games. No goals against any of the top teams. Only scored goals in 3 games that were significant in getting us points (draws against Dumbarton and Morton and the first goal against Ayr) - 5 points in total thanks to Sutton. In the seven games after the Ayr game he never even had an attempt on goal in any of the games. Pretty shit for your main striker. 

Stelios's goals were significant in getting us 6 points from only 3 goals in 6 starts and 6 sub appearances. Better than Sutton.

Did Sutton have any goals in the St Mirren Goal of the season - no. For a big guy was he a threat at corners - no.

Ross quickly realised that Sutton was not a striker that could do it for us and only played him when Loy, Smith or Morgan were injured. When these guys were all fit Sutton was on the bench.

There are a lot of rose tinted glasses surrounding Sutton from the St Mirren support - he is living on past exploits like Thommo's last two seasons with us. If we want to win the League by winning League games then we need a regular goal-scorer. And that Ain't John Sutton.

Take it you're not a fan of him...?

Few things here.  You say he didn't score against any of the top teams, he scored against Morton and Dundee Utd, 2 of the top 4.  Aswell as scoring against Dundee in the cup, but you don't seem to want to count his cup goals.

You're giving Stelios credit for winning us points in the Morton game at Cappielow at the end of the season but not Sutton.  Both of them scored once in that game...

13 goals ain't a bad return for someone who was used so sparingly.   The only strikers who've scored more than that for us in a season in recent times  have been Higdon and Thommo.  Play him every week and he will score 15 - 20 goals next season.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lex

[Demented Zebra]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Take it you're not a fan of him...?

Few things here.  You say he didn't score against any of the top teams, he scored against Morton and Dundee Utd, 2 of the top 4.  Aswell as scoring against Dundee in the cup, but you don't seem to want to count his cup goals.

You're giving Stelios credit for winning us points in the Morton game at Cappielow at the end of the season but not Sutton.  Both of them scored once in that game...

13 goals ain't a bad return for someone who was used so sparingly.   The only strikers who've scored more than that for us in a season in recent times  have been Higdon and Thommo.  Play him every week and he will score 15 - 20 goals next season.

A lot of fans have dismissed Sutton but he will be a big player for us next season if we don't sign Loy. Sutton is also looking like he has lost a few pounds going by photos from pre-season training.