Aberdeen Ladies face points deduction

[NorthernLights]

Bit of a farcical situation in the top flight of womans football in Scotland as Aberdeen face a points deduction for not fulfilling an away fixture against Spartans this evening.  Aberdeen say they were forced to as they are an amateur side so the players have full time jobs and/or in eduction and it is exam season at the moment as well and this made it impossible to get down to Edinburgh in time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39947476

[HibeeJibee]

Ridiculous situation and they should get hammered for non-fulfilment, IMO.

Ultimately it's the top level of womens football in Scotland. This was one of only 2 midweek rounds in the season (the other is home to Glasgow City) and it had been known about for months, ever since the fixtures were released. Spartans and Hibs Ladies are their nearest opponents so it's sensible scheduling from the WSPL authorities. They appear to have had a conversation with the authorities about rescheduling it, been told it's not possible, but rather than accept the ruling decided they wouldn't fulfil it anyway - i.e. they never intended to. Indeed they seemed to have pursued it all the way to the SFA Judicial Panel trying to get their league over-ruled.

AFAICS this effectively amounts to them saying they want to play in the top division but they won't fulfil away midweek games. There aren't any nearer opponents. They've had plenty of time for their players to arrange an afternoon off as a once-in-a-year event. Though they aren't professional footballers, plenty of part-time clubs in SPFL, HL, LL travel the same or further midweek. As for claiming Aberdeen is a "remote area of the country" :

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/aberdeen-fc/dons-ladies-hit-swfa-club-forced-pull-edinburgh-clash/

[tamthebam]

Aberdeen pay the penalty for not being the club who rule the roost in women's football. Clue: they're from the west, play in orange and aren't as cuddly as they like to portray themselves. Further clue: they recently got to rearrange a fixture... 

[pleslie99]

Ridiculous situation and they should get hammered for non-fulfilment, IMO.

Ultimately it's the top level of womens football in Scotland. This was one of only 2 midweek rounds in the season (the other is home to Glasgow City) and it had been known about for months, ever since the fixtures were released. Spartans and Hibs Ladies are their nearest opponents so it's sensible scheduling from the WSPL authorities. They appear to have had a conversation with the authorities about rescheduling it, been told it's not possible, but rather than accept the ruling decided they wouldn't fulfil it anyway - i.e. they never intended to. Indeed they seemed to have pursued it all the way to the SFA Judicial Panel trying to get their league over-ruled.

AFAICS this effectively amounts to them saying they want to play in the top division but they won't fulfil away midweek games. There aren't any nearer opponents. They've had plenty of time for their players to arrange an afternoon off as a once-in-a-year event. Though they aren't professional footballers, plenty of part-time clubs in SPFL, HL, LL travel the same or further midweek. As for claiming Aberdeen is a "remote area of the country" :

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/aberdeen-fc/dons-ladies-hit-swfa-club-forced-pull-edinburgh-clash/

This is not a fair assessment. You can't expect girls to get out of school at exam time for a game of football. There is no issue with a re-arranged game at some point in the season and to me seems like Aberdeen have been treated ridiculously. Not the 1st time the SWF have made a ridiculous decision this year to affect clubs that aren't the 'big' ones!

[HibeeJibee]

We'll have to agree to disagree... We're always being told that women's football should be given more coverage, isn't treated seriously enough, is becoming ever more professional et al. If so, you can't simultaneously go about cancelling games top division games because schoolgirls sitting Standard Grade Physics mightn't be available.

[pleslie99]

We'll have to agree to disagree... We're always being told that women's football should be given more coverage, isn't treated seriously enough, is becoming ever more professional et al. If so, you can't simultaneously go about cancelling games top division games because schoolgirls sitting Standard Grade Physics mightn't be available.

Yeah but it's not professional, that's the difference! The girls that play, play for the love of the game. They give up a lot of time every week to train, play and travel to games. Maybe if the powers that be treated some teams better and ruled a bit more fairly (and I mean this in more than just the incident in question) then maybe outsiders would view it a bit more seriously. There are a lot of good teams out there in division 1 and 2 doing good things for the game but it's only ever the 'big' guns that get covered!

[juventus]

Ridiculous situation and they should get hammered for non-fulfilment, IMO.

Ultimately it's the top level of womens football in Scotland. This was one of only 2 midweek rounds in the season (the other is home to Glasgow City) and it had been known about for months, ever since the fixtures were released. Spartans and Hibs Ladies are their nearest opponents so it's sensible scheduling from the WSPL authorities. They appear to have had a conversation with the authorities about rescheduling it, been told it's not possible, but rather than accept the ruling decided they wouldn't fulfil it anyway - i.e. they never intended to. Indeed they seemed to have pursued it all the way to the SFA Judicial Panel trying to get their league over-ruled.

AFAICS this effectively amounts to them saying they want to play in the top division but they won't fulfil away midweek games. There aren't any nearer opponents. They've had plenty of time for their players to arrange an afternoon off as a once-in-a-year event. Though they aren't professional footballers, plenty of part-time clubs in SPFL, HL, LL travel the same or further midweek. As for claiming Aberdeen is a "remote area of the country" :

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/aberdeen-fc/dons-ladies-hit-swfa-club-forced-pull-edinburgh-clash/

Then Glasgow City are allowed to play them on the Sunday - permission from SWF ????.

[HibeeJibee]

It's been moved due to player callups for an international? Big difference.

 

On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 20:10, HibeeJibee said:

We're always being told that women's football should be given more coverage, isn't treated seriously enough, is becoming ever more professional et al. If so, you can't simultaneously go about cancelling games top division games because schoolgirls sitting Standard Grade Physics mightn't be available.

 

On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 22:37, pleslie99 said:

Yeah but it's not professional, that's the difference! The girls that play, play for the love of the game. They give up a lot of time every week to train, play and travel to games.

... and therein lies the dichotomy. Is it to be run and expect to be treated seriously, or as amateur recreation?

[pleslie99]

Until it's run professionally and all teams treated the same and given the same level playing field then yes it will still be amateur. The problem is that unless your a big boy (girl) then the SWF don't care! Scottish woman's football is falling behind, hence why all the best players from Glasgow city have moved on to professional clubs down south and abroad! Until SWF change then we will continue to fall behind and lose all our best players!

[GordonS]

At this time of year a lot of Junior and Amateur men's teams have a backlog of fixtures and are playing once or twice each midweek. They all have to fit that around work and study and family life, and it causes a headache for the clubs. You know what? Tough, get on with it. Linlithgow Rose had a terrible time trying to play a re-arranged Cup tie at Wick last season in the middle of winter, and in the end only 12 players were available to travel up. But they were going to fulfil that fixture come hell or high water. 

There's absolutely no excuse for a club in the top level of women's football to be unable to play a midweek tie in Scotland in May. If they have too many players unavailable then they need to think about the balance of their squad. 

[pleslie99]

At this time of year a lot of Junior and Amateur men's teams have a backlog of fixtures and are playing once or twice each midweek. They all have to fit that around work and study and family life, and it causes a headache for the clubs. You know what? Tough, get on with it. Linlithgow Rose had a terrible time trying to play a re-arranged Cup tie at Wick last season in the middle of winter, and in the end only 12 players were available to travel up. But they were going to fulfil that fixture come hell or high water. 
There's absolutely no excuse for a club in the top level of women's football to be unable to play a midweek tie in Scotland in May. If they have too many players unavailable then they need to think about the balance of their squad. 

You've missed the point here I think. It's not about comparisons between men's football and woman's football, which you have done with your 1st sentence. The point is they asked for a re-arranged date, it's early in the season, it shouldn't be a problem. But no the SWF said no, but granted a certain other team a postponement! Do you think it's ok to take 15/16 year olds out of school, at exam time of year to play a game of football?
If you want to compare men's and woman's football, in the example you state, Linlithgow rose are a semi-pro team who pay their players to play for them, so if they leave work early or take days off to play, they won't totally be out of pocket! Woman's football does not pay therefore your comparison is invalid. Also men's football season is coming to a close, games need to be played before a certain date to make sure leagues are wrapped up so there is a limit to when these can be played. Woman's football has until November so there is plenty time to rearrange.
Your attitude to woman's football is what's wrong with the game, we should be encouraging and accommodating everyone that wants to play, not punishing them.

[GordonS]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:40, pleslie99 said:

You've missed the point here I think. It's not about comparisons between men's football and woman's football, which you have done with your 1st sentence. The point is they asked for a re-arranged date, it's early in the season, it shouldn't be a problem. But no the SWF said no, but granted a certain other team a postponement! Do you think it's ok to take 15/16 year olds out of school, at exam time of year to play a game of football?
If you want to compare men's and woman's football, in the example you state, Linlithgow rose are a semi-pro team who pay their players to play for them, so if they leave work early or take days off to play, they won't totally be out of pocket! Woman's football does not pay therefore your comparison is invalid. Also men's football season is coming to a close, games need to be played before a certain date to make sure leagues are wrapped up so there is a limit to when these can be played. Woman's football has until November so there is plenty time to rearrange.
Your attitude to woman's football is what's wrong with the game, we should be encouraging and accommodating everyone that wants to play, not punishing them.

The other team got a postponement because they had players away on international duty. Hardly the same as "cos it's a school night".

If a SWPL1 side are reliant on 15 and 16 years olds to fulfil fixtures, maybe that's their problem. They really didn't have 11 available players? I don't believe it, but if that's true then it's poor squad planning.

Ok, Linlithgow Rose players get a few quid, but they've still got to get permission to miss work and sometimes they can't. And smaller Junior teams are paying hardly anything. I've seen Junior teams field three or four trialists to make up the numbers, and put coaches on the bench. Missing fixtures is an insult to your opponents and you do anything you can to avoid it.

And you say my comparison with the men's game is the problem. But it's the women's game that's punished Aberdeen for missing the fixture, and there are plenty of women's teams critical of what Aberdeen did. 

Yes we should be encouraging people to play. But this is SWP1 and it should be treated with more professionalism than Aberdeen showed.

I understand you opinion but I don't agree with it. 

[pleslie99]

The other team got a postponement because they had players away on international duty. Hardly the same as "cos it's a school night".
If a SWPL1 side are reliant on 15 and 16 years olds to fulfil fixtures, maybe that's their problem. They really didn't have 11 available players? I don't believe it, but if that's true then it's poor squad planning.
Ok, Linlithgow Rose players get a few quid, but they've still got to get permission to miss work and sometimes they can't. And smaller Junior teams are paying hardly anything. I've seen Junior teams field three or four trialists to make up the numbers, and put coaches on the bench. Missing fixtures is an insult to your opponents and you do anything you can to avoid it.
And you say my comparison with the men's game is the problem. But it's the women's game that's punished Aberdeen for missing the fixture, and there are plenty of women's teams critical of what Aberdeen did. 
Yes we should be encouraging people to play. But this is SWP1 and it should be treated with more professionalism than Aberdeen showed.
I understand you opinion but I don't agree with it. 

I agree with you to an extent with regards to professionalism. However, professionalism needs to start from the top with the SWF, when that happens and is filtered down to the teams at the other end of the pyramid then the game will be in a good place. There is too much focus on one team in Scotland and not the rest!
I don't believe they are 'reliant' on 15/16 year olds but that is the way with woman's football and the future, these are the girls that want to play!
On your point on trialists, it's not that easy in woman's football. Yes they are allowed but getting players is difficult, the majority of girls that play football or want to play football are already signed up with a team therefore not eligible to play as a trialists. Aberdeen are in SWPL1 and I don't think picking randoms off the street would cut it! At least at junior level in the men's game they have the pick of any decent amateur player in any league!
I appreciate your point and respect your opinion, I do think the whole situation should've been handled better. I'm sure Aberdeen's opponents would have preferred to play the game at a later date rather than just be given the points!
Are you involved with woman's football at all?

[BroadcastCallum]

Arguments for and against - tough one however some devil's advocate thoughts.

Fixtures are announced in January.  1 or 2 clubs had to get fixtures changed (international windows and in some cases due to stadium/ground availabilities) - They got it done in January.  Not starting to enquire in March/April when the season started.  For example I believe Glasgow City couldn't play a home game in April v Hamilton.  Hamilton likewise found a home game inconvenience for a midweek night in May s they switched the fixtures and it got sorted in week 1 of fixture announcements.

The league is 'amateur' in status but is trying to gain all the time and the top sides are trying to make it closer to semi-pro. This is after all the top level of the Women's game.  Yes Men's semi-pro / junior get paid some reasonably well some not or even at al.  Not quite same scenario but Lower league SPFL and non-league men's teams play midweek etc from time to time.  1 distance travel fixture isn't / shouldn't be all and end all - if it is planned months in advance.  'Top' sides often have players missing on midweek games too but get on.  Seen scenarios in past where City have not had a player or 2 for Champions League games due to work commitments.  Whatever the comp, whatever the side natures of part-time/amateur football.

Absolute worst case scenario could have been sorted quietly with Aberdeen playing Spartans either on a Sunday at the start or end of the summer break (no internationalists likely to be away).

I know it's been mentioned but  I know at the time there was some faux-outrage on Twitter how City-Aberdeen had been sorted out to play but that was pre-sorted out due to a "valid" reason of several internationals being away.

On the pitch I think Aberdeen have lost a couple of quality players in past year or two. Susan Murray their Centre Half who retired at end of 2016 and Rachel Small went to Hibs. Sadly relying on young players a bit which puts them in trouble to survive.  Between them and Hamilton.

Another small note is despite what could be seen as tough to Aberdeen, One note is (which is a shame) that the North is under-represented.  Aberdeen have been in the top 3/4 in recent years but Inverness have had two straight relegations to the third tier.  Maybe the 8 team league is showing what you need to do now.  Hamilton, Forfar, Hearts kind of had the mindsets to relish SWPL2 and try and grow youth structures etc further.

[pleslie99]

Arguments for and against - tough one however some devil's advocate thoughts.

Fixtures are announced in January.  1 or 2 clubs had to get fixtures changed (international windows and in some cases due to stadium/ground availabilities) - They got it done in January.  Not starting to enquire in March/April when the season started.  For example I believe Glasgow City couldn't play a home game in April v Hamilton.  Hamilton likewise found a home game inconvenience for a midweek night in May s they switched the fixtures and it got sorted in week 1 of fixture announcements.

The league is 'amateur' in status but is trying to gain all the time and the top sides are trying to make it closer to semi-pro. This is after all the top level of the Women's game.  Yes Men's semi-pro / junior get paid some reasonably well some not or even at al.  Not quite same scenario but Lower league SPFL and non-league men's teams play midweek etc from time to time.  1 distance travel fixture isn't / shouldn't be all and end all - if it is planned months in advance.  'Top' sides often have players missing on midweek games too but get on.  Seen scenarios in past where City have not had a player or 2 for Champions League games due to work commitments.  Whatever the comp, whatever the side natures of part-time/amateur football.

Absolute worst case scenario could have been sorted quietly with Aberdeen playing Spartans either on a Sunday at the start or end of the summer break (no internationalists likely to be away).

I know it's been mentioned but  I know at the time there was some faux-outrage on Twitter how City-Aberdeen had been sorted out to play but that was pre-sorted out due to a "valid" reason of several internationals being away.

On the pitch I think Aberdeen have lost a couple of quality players in past year or two. Susan Murray their Centre Half who retired at end of 2016 and Rachel Small went to Hibs. Sadly relying on young players a bit which puts them in trouble to survive.  Between them and Hamilton.

Another small note is despite what could be seen as tough to Aberdeen, One note is (which is a shame) that the North is under-represented.  Aberdeen have been in the top 3/4 in recent years but Inverness have had two straight relegations to the third tier.  Maybe the 8 team league is showing what you need to do now.  Hamilton, Forfar, Hearts kind of had the mindsets to relish SWPL2 and try and grow youth structures etc further.

As someone who is involved with woman's football I can guarantee that fixtures were not received in January. Well maybe the SWPL got theirs but us mere mortals got ours 2 weeks! Yep 2 weeks before the 1st competitive game. I totally understand that we are trying to make the woman's game more professional and I'm all for it, but my main point stands, ALL teams need to be treated equally! Not just the ones that bring in the big bucks for the bigwigs!

[BroadcastCallum]

16 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

As someone who is involved with woman's football I can guarantee that fixtures were not received in January. Well maybe the SWPL got theirs but us mere mortals got ours 2 weeks! Yep 2 weeks before the 1st competitive game. I totally understand that we are trying to make the woman's game more professional and I'm all for it, but my main point stands, ALL teams need to be treated equally! Not just the ones that bring in the big bucks for the bigwigs!

BIB - me too but on the outside from any club workings.  SWPL 1 & 2 was whenever it was (end of Jan time).  I believe some SWFL league troubles though right? 3rd tier down?  Was there not a delay on placings for some clubs (or reason behind the delay for SWFL fixtures).

Don't do SWFL at all bar the Cup Finals (unfortunately).

[HibeeJibee]

Top-of-the-table clash between Glasgow City and Spartans tomorrow night postponed as the governing body forgot to tell Spartans about the game, according to today's paper.

[juventus]

Top-of-the-table clash between Glasgow City and Spartans tomorrow night postponed as the governing body forgot to tell Spartans about the game, according to today's paper.

Game was meant to be between Hibs and Glasgow City