Berwick Rangers 2017/18

[Fred]

6 minutes ago, Redcar said:

Elgin signed 2 this week, I think.

If we'd retained the option to sign 1 more perhaps we could have catered for the bonkers possibility of having Murrell as our only forward in Autumn. (And he was an afterthought in the summer!)

Yes, it is hard to believe. But, if we play 8 defensive players maybe we don’t need too many forwards..

I think berwick doing ok, but we need to believe in ourselves and keep the team spirit, which I actually think IS there..

 

[ShiPi]

6 minutes ago, Redcar said:

Elgin signed 2 this week, I think.

If we'd retained the option to sign 1 more perhaps we could have catered for the bonkers possibility of having Murrell as our only forward in Autumn. (And he was an afterthought in the summer!)

Declan Byrne didn't have a club so anyone could have signed him at anytime. Tony Dingwall is 23 so he is not a development loan so our development loans have nothing to do with it. 

[headthebaw]

1 hour ago, ShiPi said:

Why would a manager use loans instead of raiding other clubs? 

 

 

 

'cause nobody wants to sign for Berwick?

[ShiPi]

My view on the balance of the squad at the start of the season was

GK                     McCrorie  (Dloan)            Brennan

RCB                  Fairbairn                                 Fleming                                  Wilson  Injured

LCB                  Waugh  (Dloan)                   Scullion

RWB//RB      Donaldson  (Dloan)        Cook

LWB/LB          Phillips                                   McDonald           Orru       McKinlay Injured

CDM                 Lavery                                    Notman                Stewart               

CAM                  Irving   (Dloan)                   McKenna             Thomson            

CF                      Rutherford                         Murrell                Watt

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

Always get suspicious when I see a sudden stream of new accounts or those with low # of posts suddenly becoming active around Berwick, but at least it's giving Redcar someone to talk to, which is no bad thing given P&B's long ongoing League Two forum downfall.

My view on it is, for the little it's worth, is that we're simply short of quality across the whole squad and we'll have results like this till next season - not just January as all seem to be hoping for. The most we could have hoped for when looking at the state of the squad at the start of the season was staying up - certainly at the time Coughlin was sacked (though obviously still early days), I thought we'd be in a relegation battle. Thankfully Horn came in and got a few results quickly and that's helped buy us some time, meaning things currently still look a little more rosy than that and hopefully those spurts of form continue.

But I think all will acknowledge that we still should be reshuffling in January, whether that's with a view to 'pushing on', to avoiding relegation or simply to start weeding out the shite ahead of 2018/19. I suspect it'll be a case of shift to sign, so we'll see comings and goings as opposed to just seeing Horn allowed the funds to boost what we have, but to be honest, I think that might be needed anyway. There's far too much deadwood in the squad, and it's about time a manager was ruthless about it. I suspect the likes of Lavery for example are going to need a huge 6 months.

As the Stirling fan rightly pointed out, no c**t fancies playing for Berwick - I barely even have an interest in watching them at the minute after 10 consecutive nothing seasons. But Horn and his team have good knowledge of the lower levels, contacts higher up and I'm sure are more attractive to play for as a management team than Coughlin and his might have been. I doubt many need reminded we won the league with a bunch of relative unknowns against the great QP and Arbroath, and I'd hope that this time next season we might be in a position where fans can actually feel we have a chance of doing something more than existing.

People always look for someone to blame. There's a few on here pretty defensive of Coughlin by the looks of it, but the reality is his Summer signings especially were in the most part shite, and we've been left with a squad that's both imbalanced and pretty questionable overall ability wise. They're probably right - our budget isn't great and that'll have played a part. But I don't think his man management skills were up to much either and for all it was/is a relatively poor squad, I don't think he was the man to get the best out of it. He might have always been up against it, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have done better than he did. He actively proclaimed last season that a benefit of being FT was the ability to take in a shitload of top level Development League football. We ended up with Waugh and Donaldson, who I'm unsure he ever saw, or was impressed by. He also crafted a young squad full of players who've probably never taken a bollocking in their life, and seemed pretty shocked that they didn't react at weekly hairdryer treatment. 

Equally though, there's far more wrong at the club than John Coughlin's summer signings, and it's naive to expect that Horn will use the next 6 months to devise a miracle next season when there's no progress off it. People, probably including those outside the board, are going to have to find a way to put tedious powerplays aside, boost revenue, reduce financial losses and most importantly find a way to re-engage fans.

[ShiPi]

2 hours ago, Redcar said:

Coughlin was clearly hoping for 2 more Callum Cranes. He didn't get them.

I don't entirely understand the loan system, but I thought Godinho was the last throw of the dice for now, so Robbie has to work with what he's got till January. Would be nice if we'd never had Waugh and Donaldson and could go for someone else now.

Easy with hindsight, mind.

54. There shall be the following categories of temporary transfer:

54.1 "Standard Temporary Transfer";

54.2 "Development Temporary Transfer";

and 54.3 until the earliest of midnight on 2 July 2018 and the date of termination of the term of the Emergency Temporary Transfer of the final Player who is the subject of such a category of temporary transfer, "Emergency Temporary Transfer". On whichever is the earliest of the dates last mentioned the category of Emergency Temporary Transfer shall cease to exist.

55. The term of a Standard Temporary Transfer and a Development Temporary Transfer of a Player to a Club must be set out in the written agreement between the parties concerned, must be at least until the first day of the immediately succeeding Registration Period and, subject to Regulations 64, may not be for less than 28 days.

56. The term of an Emergency Temporary Transfer must be set out in the written agreement between the parties concerned, may commence and/or terminate outside of a Registration Period, must commence not later than midnight on 31 March 2018 and must be for not less than 28 days and for not more than 93 days.

57. An Emergency Temporary Transfer may only be to a Club which is, at the commencement of the term of the Emergency Temporary Transfer, eligible to participate in: (i) the Championship; (ii) League One; (iii) League Two; or (iv) in any Scottish FA recognised league approved by the Board.

58. The full terms and conditions of a temporary transfer, including all financial terms as between the Club(s) and any club concerned, together with an express statement as to whether the temporary transfer is a Standard Temporary Transfer, a Development Temporary Transfer or an Emergency Temporary Transfer of a 122 Player, must be set out in the written agreement between the Club(s) and any club concerned, which must be Communicated to the Scottish FA by the Club(s) and any club concerned prior to the commencement of the term of the temporary transfer. Restrictions on Temporary Transfers

59. Subject to Regulations 64, a Club shall not:-

(i) at any time have an aggregate of more than four Players Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined;

(ii) at any time have Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined more than one Player who is not be an Under 23 Player;

(iii) in any period of twelve months from 1 July in any one calendar year to 30 June (inclusive) in the next, Play in all Competitions more than two Players Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined who are/were not Under 23 Players;

(iv) at any time have more than one Player Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined from any one Club for the time being eligible to participate in the same Division as itself;

(v) at any time have more than two Players Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined from any one Club for the time being eligible to participate in another Division from itself;

and (vi) at any time have more than three Players Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers, Emergency Temporary Transfers and Development Temporary Transfers combined from any one Club. 

60. Subject to Regulation 64, if a Club shall, in any period of twelve months from 1 July in any one calendar year to 30 June (inclusive) in the next:-

(i) have more than one Player Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfer(s) and/or Emergency temporary Transfer(s) combined from a Club eligible to participate in the same Division as itself;

and/or (ii) two or more Players Scottish FA Registered with it on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfer(s) and/or Emergency Temporary Transfer(s) combined from another Club for the time being eligible to participate in another Division from itself, the Scottish FA Registration(s) of the Player(s) most recently Scottish FA Registered with it shall immediately terminate such that there shall be the minimum number of terminations of Scottish FA Registrations required to secure compliance with these Regulations and any Player(s) whose Registration(s) are so terminated shall be dealt with in accordance with Regulation 67.

61. Subject to these Regulations, the maximum permitted number of Players permitted to become Scottish FA Registered to a Club on the basis of Standard Temporary Transfers and Emergency Temporary Transfers combined during the period from 1st July in any calendar year to 30th June (inclusive) in the following calendar year is five.

62. A Club shall not apply so as to have Scottish FA Registered with it more than four Players on the basis of Development Temporary Transfers at any one time.

[Redcar]

My brain hurts.

[tamthebam]

1 hour ago, Redcar said:

My brain hurts.

You have a brain?!! 

[A Believer]

And fully compliant with Development Transfer Articles 54 through 62.....I think....[emoji23]

[dafcburty]

 A Chat With Stevie Notman: 

https://jordanburtfootball.com/2017/12/01/a-chat-with-stevie-notman/

I spoke with your long-serving midfielder a week or so ago about his career so far, his testimonial and the future. 

[dafcburty]

This is an article from an interview I conducted with Robby McCrorie a few weeks ago:

https://jordanburtfootball.com/2017/12/09/mccrorie-would-love-to-team-up-with-twin-brother-in-the-future/

[Redcar]

Another away thumping, which by every account I've heard could have been a whole lot worse 

Other than cementing the thought that Steve Notman is essential to breaking up opposition attacks, I don't know where Robbie can go now. Other than Chris McDonald, nothing very inspiring in the bench.

Stuck  with the same defence that did so well last week and the team got overrun. Again. 

Just have to grit it out till January, then chase half the side. 

 

[A Believer]

Another away thumping, which by every account I've heard could have been a whole lot worse 
Other than cementing the thought that Steve Notman is essential to breaking up opposition attacks, I don't know where Robbie can go now. Other than Chris McDonald, nothing very inspiring in the bench.
Stuck  with the same defence that did so well last week and the team got overrun. Again. 
Just have to grit it out till January, then chase half the side. 
 

Will Robbie's biggest challenge perhaps be actually attracting the better players to come to Berwick? Hopefully he has something special that Coff never had; they weren't queuing up to sign before; hence we have the squad we have.
Any ideas what may be different?

Robbie and directors alluring vision for the club? Attractive money? Promotion?

I truly hope he can; and see a few posts almost expecting it: I'm just not sure what tools he has to make it happen.

For me, our best (only) option is still a sustainable model for youth development. But hey, when did clubs or supporters ever have the patience for that.

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

10 minutes ago, A Believer said:

For me, our best (only) option is still a sustainable model for youth development. But hey, when did clubs or supporters ever have the patience for that.

In brutal honesty, and I mean this without any offence intended, but I really do think that theory is a  load of bollocks. How many clubs at this level are a constant stream of young talents coming through. Whenever a team in a similarly 'isolated' location like a Peterhead etc have done well in the league, it's certainly not been because they've taken a punt on their own kids. The best you can hope for is 1-2 to come through, and although the development team has been much better for us in the past 2 seasons, I still don't foresee any of those being good enough to waltz in and make an impact. It isn't a question of patience, it's a question of realism.

[BB_Bino]

In brutal honesty, and I mean this without any offence intended, but I really do think that theory is a  load of bollocks. How many clubs at this level are a constant stream of young talents coming through.

Must admit, I though this at one point, but there is a lot to be said about a team made up of players from the Youth and signed from other clubs.

A quick look at the Stirling team and you’ll see that 7 of our First Team squad have come through our Youth Development squad and about 5-10 more have had a shot at breaking through over the past couple of seasons.

Now I’m not saying this will be good enough to get us to where we want to be in the grand scheme of things, but I think a lot needs to be said about clubs such as ours giving youngsters the platform to become involved in the professional game.

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

6 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

Must admit, I though this at one point, but there is a lot to be said about a team made up of players from the Youth and signed from other clubs.

A quick look at the Stirling team and you’ll see that 7 of our First Team squad have come through our Youth Development squad and about 5-10 more have had a shot at breaking through over the past couple of seasons.

Now I’m not saying this will be good enough to get us to where we want to be in the grand scheme of things, but I think a lot needs to be said about clubs such as ours giving youngsters the platform to become involved in the professional game.

 

But then surely there's a question to be asked. Do you want to be a platform for kids or do you want to be successful. I honestly couldn't give a f**k who puts the shirt on if they're winning games.

[BB_Bino]

But then surely there's a question to be asked. Do you want to be a platform for kids or do you want to be successful. I honestly couldn't give a f**k who puts the shirt on if they're winning games.

It’s a valid point you make and in truth, I’m the same. The only thing is though,

I think the same arguments are used about foreign players higher up the ladder but why can’t you be seen as both? A successful team that also gives Youth a chance? It’s worked for Hamilton, Dundee United, Falkirk and others in the past.

[Redcar]

Tend to agree with BTU. Dan Watt is probably the nearest to break through. He scored bucket loads at lower level, but in the first team he was less than ordinary and has now been moved on.

On the other hand, maybe the key word in AB's post is "sustainable". Perhaps there is a better way than signing youngsters, loaning them out for a year, then starting with a fresh set a year later, hoping for a golden ticket. Every player starts at a youth team somewhere, just a question of either nurturing yourselves or poaching the rejects from Hibs/Hearts etc.

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

1 minute ago, BB_Bino said:

 

It’s a valid point you make and in truth, I’m the same. The only thing is though,

I think the same arguments are used about foreign players higher up the ladder but why can’t you be seen as both? A successful team that also gives Youth a chance? It’s worked for Hamilton, Dundee United, Falkirk and others in the past.

 

Surely it's a simple question of resource. We don't have the money, personnel nor facilities. The best young talent are always going to choose  a decent sized side in any case, and were we to be able to have a good youth system resultant of a miracle in the 3 above areas, any player who did sign up would be quite easily poached by a bigger club come the end of their annual deal. I don't buy the idea that every side at this level has it wrong - I just don't see it as viable. As guff as it is, I think sides are best picking up the guys released by bigger clubs and hoping to unearth a gem or two. If you compare the finest youth prospects to 'graduate' from Berwick in recent years like the aforementioned Watt or Josh Morris, and compare it to say Dylan Easton, I know which one I'd rather see in the Black & Gold.

To relate it back to the original question - what does Horn have that Coughlin doesn't that would help change things, I'd argue a plan. I feel like I repeat myself every time I post in this topic, but I suspect Horn's philosophy and ambitions will be a much more attractive proposition when selling the club. I think he's far better linked than Coughlin ever was, a little more 'with it' in relation to how players in the modern game react and, once he has his own team in place, I think his playing style will be a lot more enjoyable to be a part of as a player too. As I explained the other week on here, I don't expect a sudden turnaround and play off challenge as some seem to. But I do have faith that this time next season we'll be a lot healthier.

[A Believer]

Surely it's a simple question of resource. We don't have the money, personnel nor facilities. The best young talent are always going to choose  a decent sized side in any case, and were we to be able to have a good youth system resultant of a miracle in the 3 above areas, any player who did sign up would be quite easily poached by a bigger club come the end of their annual deal. I don't buy the idea that every side at this level has it wrong - I just don't see it as viable. As guff as it is, I think sides are best picking up the guys released by bigger clubs and hoping to unearth a gem or two. If you compare the finest youth prospects to 'graduate' from Berwick in recent years like the aforementioned Watt or Josh Morris, and compare it to say Dylan Easton, I know which one I'd rather see in the Black & Gold.

To relate it back to the original question - what does Horn have that Coughlin doesn't that would help change things, I'd argue a plan. I feel like I repeat myself every time I post in this topic, but I suspect Horn's philosophy and ambitions will be a much more attractive proposition when selling the club. I think he's far better linked than Coughlin ever was, a little more 'with it' in relation to how players in the modern game react and, once he has his own team in place, I think his playing style will be a lot more enjoyable to be a part of as a player too. As I explained the other week on here, I don't expect a sudden turnaround and play off challenge as some seem to. But I do have faith that this time next season we'll be a lot healthier.

Now; I mean this with no offence intended, but can you not take in, that views other than yours, may be valid Berwick the Omnipotent. Noting the supporting comment re Stirling.

 

You seem to agree that we're skint, and you're right, decent talent will move on. We're no' Real Madrid; like every club in Scotland; and almost all in England, were a selling club.

 

My original point was, we have never been able to attract players of a level we need to progress. Like never. So we need to change our long term strategy.

 

If that means nurturing talent, them moving on (for a fee) them fine, we then build capital to attract the players we all want.

 

'We've always wanted to pick up guys released by bigger clubs'; they don't want to come here, unless made worth their while. Players at our level are quite happy playing East of Scotland and junior, and not have to spend half their lives sitting on busses to Annan, Elgin and Peterheid. Berwick, right now, isn't a passport to a career trend improvement, so why would they?

 

This wasn't about Coff v Robbie as individuals, it's about the macro 'offer' Berwick each could make. I agree with all the points you make about Horn; beguiling though it is, and although I hope it makes a difference, I just can't see it.

 

Back to my original point, we have no cash or a more unique and attractive offer, so long term sustainable youth development is STILL the only viable option; unless your on good terms with a Russian oligarch looking for a pass-time.