CALDERON Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, No_Problemo said: This is true. One aspect which might be an issue this year, however is if Dumbarton make the final as the second leg would be at their place. If it was Ayr, half the normal home support wouldn’t even get to see it. Raith similar. An issue I have with the playoffs is that the championship side gets the advantage (i.e home advantage in second leg and plays fourth place) Whereas previously second bottom in the championship was automatically down so don’t really understand why they get an advantage in the playoffs. Should be the second placed team IMO. Since the playoffs have came in we have managed to finish second four times now which is pretty ridiculous. Yeah I agree that if anyone should get any kind of benefit it should be 2nd place side. Fact remains that if Ayr or Raith don't go up then they will have lost a four team playoff that contains three part time sides. There can be absolutely no excuse at all. If either club can't navigate that then they have bigger problems than the playoff sctucture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Rubbish. I've always been against the play offs. I'm a great advocate of "if it's not broken, don't fix it", however we've reached a point where we're tinkering with things just for the very sake of it. The bottom line is that you have 36 games to finish as high as you can, each team has the same chance with 2 away and 2 home games against each other and when all's said and done the final standings confirm the consistency over an entire season by each team. Simple yet effective. Why should the 4th place team have a chance of finishing above the 2nd or 3rd placed team ? By the same token, who's to say the bottom placed team couldn't win a 2 legged tie against the 2nd placed team either ? It's mental if you think about it. Whether you believe me or not is immaterial, Ayr are where they are and the rules are in place, however it doesn't mean that me or anyone else can't speak out about why we think the play offs are crazy and why they should be done away with in all leagues for future seasons. Make no mistake, they only ever appeared as a result of the big clubs wanting to safeguard their positions as the 2 up and 2 down had them all terrified of relegation, hence the reason the SPL has the deck stacked totally against the Championship clubs. Why should 2nd place be guaranteed a promotion spot? Why don't we just have 1 up and 1 down because really the only teams that deserve it are the ones who win the league. The play-offs create excitement and fans thoroughly enjoy them on the whole. Not to mention the extra cash generated for the clubs involved. Decrying them based on the apparent "fairness" of a 2 up 2 down system is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Yeah I agree that if anyone should get any kind of benefit it should be 2nd place side. Fact remains that if Ayr or Raith don't go up then they will have lost a four team playoff that contains three part time sides. There can be absolutely no excuse at all. If either club can't navigate that then they have bigger problems than the playoff sctucture. Can’t disagree. We have both had ample opportunity not to make an utter mess of it. We tend to do well in the playoffs, but given the way yesterday went I don’t imagine any of us would be confident. The only slight hope is that we should have the best player in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Why should 2nd place be guaranteed a promotion spot? Why don't we just have 1 up and 1 down because really the only teams that deserve it are the ones who win the league. The play-offs create excitement and fans thoroughly enjoy them on the whole. Not to mention the extra cash generated for the clubs involved. Decrying them based on the apparent "fairness" of a 2 up 2 down system is crazy. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, I've put forward my reasons for why I believe the play offs are wrong and you've put forward your reasons why you think they're a good idea, fair enough, debate is good when arguments are backed up and makes a pleasant change from the "just because" brigade who are incapable of formulating an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpInTheAyr Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Why should 2nd place be guaranteed a promotion spot? Why don't we just have 1 up and 1 down because really the only teams that deserve it are the ones who win the league. The play-offs create excitement and fans thoroughly enjoy them on the whole. Not to mention the extra cash generated for the clubs involved. Decrying them based on the apparent "fairness" of a 2 up 2 down system is crazy. But if it was 1 up and 1 down then Ayr will probably be in League 1 next season. Why don't we have playoffs, they sound like a great idea. In all seriousness, in a ten team league, if the playoffs were ditched then I can't see a justification for 2 automatic promotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHans Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, I've put forward my reasons for why I believe the play offs are wrong and you've put forward your reasons why you think they're a good idea, fair enough, debate is good when arguments are backed up and makes a pleasant change from the "just because" brigade who are incapable of formulating an argument. Your argument is just fucking stupid though. Purely toys out the pram because you bottled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Why should 2nd place be guaranteed a promotion spot? Why don't we just have 1 up and 1 down because really the only teams that deserve it are the ones who win the league. The play-offs create excitement and fans thoroughly enjoy them on the whole. Not to mention the extra cash generated for the clubs involved. Decrying them based on the apparent "fairness" of a 2 up 2 down system is crazy. Exactly. As a fan of a team who have ‘suffered’ because of the playoffs the play offs overall are excellent. So much to play for right through the season. Only the winner should go up automatically. We also didn’t just lose out, we lost out big time, we finished 2nd in this league to Cowdenbeath when they won it. And not only did Dumbarton go up because they beat us in the semi and got to the final, even though they finished below us, the other play off finalist went up too because Rangers died! I’m still relatively seething over it but the play offs overall have been great to be involved in. They definitely make our leagues a lot more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, UpInTheAyr said: But if it was 1 and 1 down then Ayr will probably be in League 1 next season. Why don't we have playoffs, they sound like a great idea. In all seriousness, in a ten team league, if the playoffs were ditched then I can't see a justification for 2 automatic promotions. Exactly my point, any system we use will have someone saying it's unfair, so having a system which makes things interesting for more clubs is surely the preferable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said: Exactly. As a fan of a team who have ‘suffered’ because of the playoffs the play offs overall are excellent. So much to play for right through the season. Only the winner should go up automatically. We also didn’t just lose out, we lost out big time, we finished 2 in this league to Cowdenbeath when they won it. And not only did Dumbarton go up because they beat us in the semi and got to the final, even though they finished below us, the other play off finalist went up too because Rangers died! I’m still relatively seething over it but the play offs overall have been great to be involved in. They definitely make our leagues a lot more exciting. Completely agree even though my club look set to be the victims of this years play-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, CALDERON said: I don't mind the fact it's two legged. It prevents a "freak result". If you can't beat a side over two legs you don't deserve to progress. ‘Freak’ or unpredictable results are what makes football. Besides both teams in the final will have finished high enough in the league and beat their semi-final opponents, so either are worthy of promotion. Play it in a cup final atmosphere over 90 (or 120 minutes) at a neutral venue and it will be a lot more exciting. Look at the occasions it generates in the lower leagues of England. Would also remove the nonsense of someone like Dumbarton who finished 9th get the advantage of the last tie at home over the likes of ourselves or Ayr (or Alloa/Arbroath) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, SuperHans said: Your argument is just fucking stupid though. Purely toys out the pram because you bottled it. Explain please ? In what way is a team finishing 2nd, having then to beat a team finishing below them, to in reality, finish back above them, anything other than "stupid" ? Think about it, and then tell me again who's stupid ? or are you too "stupid" to understand this ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrfan1910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Do we get extra points for performing the biggest bottle in history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb123! Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Do we get extra points for performing the biggest bottle in history? An extra 3 points seems like a perfect reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ayrfan1910 said: Do we get extra points for performing the biggest bottle in history? Yes, unfortunately we have to catch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas 62 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, ayrmad said: Yes, unfortunately we have to catch them. Plus and minuses in playoffs, I remember one year Stranraer were about 10 points ahead of team that beat them in playoffs, same could happen to Ayr or Raith doesn’t seem fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Explain please ? In what way is a team finishing 2nd, having then to beat a team finishing below them, to in reality, finish back above them, anything other than "stupid" ? Think about it, and then tell me again who's stupid ? or are you too "stupid" to understand this ??? Justify why 2nd place deserves to go up automatically? They weren't good enough to win the league so it would be stupid to promote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Plus and minuses in playoffs, I remember one year Stranraer were about 10 points ahead of team that beat them in playoffs, same could happen to Ayr or Raith doesn’t seem fair. Everyone knows the rules before a ball is kicked. How isn’t it fair? Why should 2nd place automatically go up, that’s just rewarding failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas 62 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: Everyone knows the rules before a ball is kicked. How isn’t it fair? Why should 2nd place automatically go up, that’s just rewarding failure? Ayr and Raith deserve it over season play , if two teams to get promoted should be two best teams only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batross07 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 As a Raith fan (who has seen his fair share of defeats in a playoff situation) I am still all for the playoffs. Add so much more to the leagues. If people want it to be fairer for the 2nd place team would they prefer to see the playoffs change to what the premiership playoffs are like? That way 2nd get a bit more of an advantage. Although it would mean second bottom would get a bigger advantage. I think no matter what happens or changes they’ll never be able to please everyone. Personally I would just keep it as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Algorithms Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 We've been utter shite in the playoffs but I'm all for them. It makes it far more interesting compared to meaningless games. Can't remember the last time they didn't produce a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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