craigkillie Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 The SPFL have announced that the draw for the group stage of next season's League Cup will take place on 2nd June. East Kilbride and Buckie Thistle will both enter the tournament for the first time. Celtic and Aberdeen have already assured byes to the 2nd Round, and Rangers will almost certainly join them. The final bye will probably go to either St Johnstone or Hearts, although Partick Thistle can still finish 4th too. Assuming they follow last season's format, the remaining Premiership clubs plus the top 8 from this season's Championship will be seeded - they will be split evenly into North and South pots. The other 24 clubs will be unseeded and will also be divided evenly into North and South groups. Most of the north/south distinctions are fairly obvious, but there are likely to be a few anomalies. Last year Dumbarton had to play in the Northern section due to the uneven geographical balance of the seeded sides, and something similar could happen this season depending on who qualifies for Europe and who ends up securing safety in the Championship. Seeded Sides We already know 12 of the 16 seeded sides - they will be joined by whoever ends up finishing 5th and 6th in the Premiership, and 7th and 8th in the Championship. Of those 12 sides, there are 6 who are clearly going to be in the North section and 5 who will be in the South group. Hibs are the one team who are "in the middle" and could potentially go either way. As things stand, Hearts, Partick Thistle, Dumbarton and Raith would end up in this round. That would probably lead to Dumbarton and Raith going to the North section, and Hearts, Thistle and Hibs going to the south. However, if one of St Mirren or Ayr finish ahead of Raith or Dumbarton, then they would clearly go to the South section, and that would lead Hearts or Hibs being sent to the North unless Hearts finished ahead of St Johnstone. If both St Mirren and Ayr escape the bottom two, then both Hearts/St Johnstone and Hibs would probably end up in the Northern section. North Ross County Dundee Inverness Falkirk Dundee United Dunfermline South Kilmarnock Hamilton Motherwell Morton Queen of the South Uncertain Hibernian +2 of Rangers (S)/St Johnstone (N)/Hearts (N/S)/Partick Thistle (S) +2 of Dumbarton (N/S)/Raith (N)/St Mirren (S)/Ayr (S) Unseeded Sides 22 of the 24 unseeded sides are already known, and they will be joined by whoever finishes 9th and 10th in the Championship. Of those 22 sides, 11 are clearly bound for the North section, and 10 for the South, but Stenhousemuir could potentially go either way. 3 of the 4 potential Championship entrants would play in the South section (although Dumbarton could end up in the North section if they are seeded, if they end up being unseeded then they will almost certainly be in the South). That means that if Raith avoid the bottom two, Stenhousemuir will go North, but if Raith end up unseeded then Stenhousemuir will go South. North Alloa Athletic East Fife Brechin City Peterhead Forfar Athletic Arbroath Montrose Elgin City Stirling Albion Buckie Thistle Cowdenbeath South Airdrie Queen's Park Albion Rovers Stranraer Annan Athletic Clyde Berwick Rangers East Kilbride Livingston Edinburgh City Uncertain Stenhousemuir +2 of Dumbarton (S)/Raith (N)/St Mirren (S)/Ayr (S) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazza Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Great having group stages but would like to have a play off round for all runners up rather than best 4 going through so more meaningful games and reasonable chance to progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Lower divisions ended yesterday. Partick can't qualify for EL and it's a tall order for Hearts now. Unless they managed to overhaul St Johnstone this would be the breakdown AFAICS. If they did just swap St Johnstone for Hearts. Actually works-out quite well geographically although some oddities (most notably Edinburgh City). Possibility of Dundee / Edinburgh derbies.North Pot 1: Hearts, Dundee, Inverness, Ross CountyNorth Pot 2: Dunfermline, Dundee Utd, Falkirk, HibsSouth Unseeded: Alloa, Arbroath, Brechin, Buckie, Cowdenbeath, East Fife, Elgin, Forfar, Montrose, Peterhead, Raith, StirlingSouth Pot 1: Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, PartickSouth Pot 2: Dumbarton, Greenock Morton, QotS, St MirrenSouth Unseeded: Airdrie, Albion Rovers, Annan, Ayr, Berwick, Clyde, East Kilbride, Edinburgh City, Livingston, Queen's Park, Stenhousemuir, Stranraer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 They could put Ed City in 'North' with Hearts + Hibs and shift Stirling. However last season City were in 'South' with Stenny (and Shire) and Stirling in 'North'; but Hearts + Hibs weren't involved, tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 One further thing to add - the schedule. I think discussion of it was lost when Div had to do the big P&B reset last June - but someone (even more anorakish than me!) over on the Bert Kassies website analysed the way the groups were scheduled, and observed how it was done:Pot 1 Seeds Sat 16 Jul ..... (A) v unseeded Wed 20 Jul ... free Sat 23 Jul ..... (H) v Pot 2 Seed Wed 27 Jul ... (A) v unseeded Sat 30 Jul ..... (H) v unseededPot 2 Seeds Sat 16 Jul ..... (A) v unseeded Wed 20 Jul ... (H) v unseeded Sat 23 Jul ..... (A) v Pot 1 Seed Wed 27 Jul ... free Sat 30 Jul ..... (H) v unseeded Obviously that would be of some help to the Pot 1 Seeds as they got a full week's recovery and preparation before facing the Pot 2 Seeds: and faced them at home. It'll be interesting to see if the same system is repeated. Also the two seeds both played all the weekends and got a midweek free, while the unseeded clubs each had a free weekend and played all the midweeks. Pot 1 Seeds played both home games on weekends. Among unseeded clubs - 1 had both home games on weekends; 1 had one; 1 had none. It's worth saying that for some reason the group involving Motherwell and Rangers was not scheduled in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 9 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: One further thing to add - the schedule. I think discussion of it was lost when Div had to do the big P&B reset last June - but someone (even more anorakish than me!) over on the Bert Kassies website analysed the way the groups were scheduled, and observed how it was done:Pot 1 Seeds Sat 16 Jul ..... (A) v unseeded Wed 20 Jul ... free Sat 23 Jul ..... (H) v Pot 2 Seed Wed 27 Jul ... (A) v unseeded Sat 30 Jul ..... (H) v unseededPot 2 Seeds Sat 16 Jul ..... (A) v unseeded Wed 20 Jul ... (H) v unseeded Sat 23 Jul ..... (A) v Pot 1 Seed Wed 27 Jul ... free Sat 30 Jul ..... (H) v unseeded Obviously that would be of some help to the Pot 1 Seeds as they got a full week's recovery and preparation before facing the Pot 2 Seeds: and faced them at home. It'll be interesting to see if the same system is repeated. Also the two seeds both played all the weekends and got a midweek free, while the unseeded clubs each had a free weekend and played all the midweeks. Pot 1 Seeds played both home games on weekends. Among unseeded clubs - 1 had both home games on weekends; 1 had one; 1 had none. It's worth saying that for some reason the group involving Motherwell and Rangers was not scheduled in the same way. Did they not spread the Seeds V 2nd seeds based on TV coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 No. All those games were played on Matchday 3 (Saturday 23rd July) with the exception of Motherwell & Rangers group. In that group Motherwell v Rangers was on the opening day. Rangers played both their home games midweek and as a result 2 of the unseeded clubs played both theirs on weekend and the other one of theirs. Rangers were free on the last day, and Motherwell on the first midweek. Possibly it was due to TV selections - I recall several games in this group were on TV - or maybe as Rangers were hosting Burnley in a friendly on Saturday 30th July. Nevertheless as I say all the groups adhered to the same scheduling pattern except for this group. EDIT: These were TV selections. I can't remember off-hand which of the concluding games was selected.Matchday 1 - Arbroath v Dundee Utd; Motherwell v Rangers Matchday 2 - none Matchday 3 - East Stirlingshire v Rangers, St Johnstone v Falkirk Matchday 4 - Stranraer v Rangers Matchday 5 - 1 game tbd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Where will Hearts play their home games? Was there a plan for the European games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudu Dahan pal Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 9 hours ago, realmadrid said: Where will Hearts play their home games? Was there a plan for the European games? They will play there league cup games in front of 3 stands at tynecastle and they would've played their European games at murrayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayhole Blue Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 08/05/2017 at 18:14, HibeeJibee said: No. All those games were played on Matchday 3 (Saturday 23rd July) with the exception of Motherwell & Rangers group. In that group Motherwell v Rangers was on the opening day. Rangers played both their home games midweek and as a result 2 of the unseeded clubs played both theirs on weekend and the other one of theirs. Rangers were free on the last day, and Motherwell on the first midweek. Possibly it was due to TV selections - I recall several games in this group were on TV - or maybe as Rangers were hosting Burnley in a friendly on Saturday 30th July. Nevertheless as I say all the groups adhered to the same scheduling pattern except for this group. EDIT: These were TV selections. I can't remember off-hand which of the concluding games was selected.Matchday 1 - Arbroath v Dundee Utd; Motherwell v Rangers Matchday 2 - none Matchday 3 - East Stirlingshire v Rangers, St Johnstone v Falkirk Matchday 4 - Stranraer v Rangers Matchday 5 - 1 game tbd Even more bizarrely our TV game was at Ibrox, not Stair Park. Simply underlined the fact that TV companies will choose to show Rangers no matter how good/slim the chances of a competitive spectacle for viewers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Saints now join Celtic Aberdeen and Rangers in the last 16 with Hearts now confirmed in the group stages today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 On 08/05/2017 at 18:14, HibeeJibee said: No. All those games were played on Matchday 3 (Saturday 23rd July) with the exception of Motherwell & Rangers group. In that group Motherwell v Rangers was on the opening day. Rangers played both their home games midweek and as a result 2 of the unseeded clubs played both theirs on weekend and the other one of theirs. Rangers were free on the last day, and Motherwell on the first midweek. Possibly it was due to TV selections - I recall several games in this group were on TV - or maybe as Rangers were hosting Burnley in a friendly on Saturday 30th July. Nevertheless as I say all the groups adhered to the same scheduling pattern except for this group. EDIT: These were TV selections. I can't remember off-hand which of the concluding games was selected.Matchday 1 - Arbroath v Dundee Utd; Motherwell v Rangers Matchday 2 - none Matchday 3 - East Stirlingshire v Rangers, St Johnstone v Falkirk Matchday 4 - Stranraer v Rangers Matchday 5 - 1 game tbd I don't think there was one. This link seems to support that argument - http://sport.bt.com/football/news/spfl-league-cup-on-bt-sport-next-season-S11364065673599 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 On 12/05/2017 at 12:08, Clayhole Blue said: Even more bizarrely our TV game was at Ibrox, not Stair Park. Simply underlined the fact that TV companies will choose to show Rangers no matter how good/slim the chances of a competitive spectacle for viewers! Definitely. Their deal allows them up to 6 games from the sections so this year you'd expect to see them use up those with Hearts and Hibs games and maybe Dundee Utd (notably if they draw Dundee). With confirmation of St Johnstone in EL, only question AFAICS is whether Edinburgh City get a rum deal or whether they're swapped with Stirling as outlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Dates confirmed, same as this season:http://spfl.co.uk/key-dates/Groupstage - Saturday 15th, Wednesday 19th, Saturday 22nd, Wednesday 26th, Saturday 29th July Last 16 - Wednesday 9th August Quarter-Finals - Wednesday 20th September Semi-Finals - Saturday 21st October Final - Sunday 26th November As I noted in Scots in Europe sub-forum... pre-Christmas final could be tricky from 2018-19 as claims UEFA will move CL & EL QR1-QR3 back 1 week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of (t)reason Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 14/05/2017 at 12:52, South Lanarkshire Jag said: I don't think there was one. This link seems to support that argument - http://sport.bt.com/football/news/spfl-league-cup-on-bt-sport-next-season-S11364065673599 Dundee Utd vs Dunfermline was televised. Draw for next round made at the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I see the Group Stage Draw is on 2nd June. Certainly the potential for some tasty encounters. Based on HibeeJibee's pots above, these would be great groups for example: A Hearts Hibs Raith Cowdenbeath East Fife B Dundee Dundee United Arbroath Forfar Brechin C Inverness Falkirk Montrose Elgin Peterhead D Ross County Dunfermline Alloa Buckie Stirling E Accies Dumbarton Annan Edinburgh City Livingston F Killie QotS Ayr Berwick Stranraer G Motherwell St.Mirren Airdrie Albion Stenhousemuir H Partick Morton Clyde Queen's Park EK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Karl Fletcher said: Certainly the potential for some tasty encounters. Based on HibeeJibee's pots above, these would be great groups for example: ... F Killie QotS Ayr Berwick Stranraer Aye, that'd be brilliant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Karl Fletcher said: B Dundee Dundee United Arbroath Forfar Brechin If that happened, they should just award the 2017-18 Forfarshire Cup to the group winners. In fact, there's probably a better chance of that exact group being drawn than there is of the tournament even getting started via "conventional" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I see the Group Stage Draw is on 2nd June. Certainly the potential for some tasty encounters. Based on HibeeJibee's pots above, these would be great groups for example:A Hearts Hibs Raith Cowdenbeath East FifeB Dundee Dundee United Arbroath Forfar BrechinC Inverness Falkirk Montrose Elgin PeterheadD Ross County Dunfermline Alloa Buckie StirlingE Accies Dumbarton Annan Edinburgh City LivingstonF Killie QotS Ayr Berwick StranraerG Motherwell St.Mirren Airdrie Albion StenhousemuirH Partick Morton Clyde Queen's Park EK The point of having the League Cup in July is to spend the day on the piss at a proper away day: Berwick; Annan; Stranraer etc. A set of shan derbies a handful of miles from each other is doing it wrong.The ideal group and schedule for Morton for example would be:Berwick (a)Edinburgh City/assorted diddy (h)Hearts (a)assorted diddy (h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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