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2017/18 League Cup


craigkillie

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As a fan, the one aspect I don't like is the regionalisation. As VT says part of the charm of the tournament is an away day, and with this (and the clusterfuck of a challenge cup) being regionalised the chances of us getting a game against an Arbroath, Elgin, etc are minimal whereas we'll probably draw Airdrie or QP 7 years in a row. 

I know folk will say part-time players travelling long distances midweek but teams would still play pre season games far away from home and you're going to have a maximum of 2. Also if you don't want to be part of the national setup there's always the HL / LL.

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On 2017-5-16 at 13:42, Karl Fletcher said:

E

Accies

Dumbarton

Annan

Edinburgh City

Livingston

 

Hamilton, Edinburgh and Livi were in the same group last season, but couldn't really turn down another Edinburgh away day tbh.

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On 2017-5-16 at 23:50, The Master said:

If that happened, they should just award the 2017-18 Forfarshire Cup to the group winners.

In fact, there's probably a better chance of that exact group being drawn than there is of the tournament even getting started via "conventional" means.

Not sure Montrose would agree??

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St Johnstone having qualified for Europe wouldn't get a shot at it either. Although they aren't actually from Forfarshire...

Being serious for a moment it's the new League Cup sections which have finally killed-off several of the already ailing regional cups. It was a direct contributor to the Stirlingshire Cup being suspended; seems to have eliminated any prospects for the Forfarshire Cup; and would preclude the Renfrewshire Cup returning as before if Morton/St Mirren went up/down.

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1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

St Johnstone having qualified for Europe wouldn't get a shot at it either. Although they aren't actually from Forfarshire...
 

I'm pretty sure we only joined in the mid-eighties as we previously played in the Dewars Sheild (for the winers of Perthshire, Aberdeenshire, Forfarshire & Stirlingshire cups).

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That is correct.

Or, to be precisely correct - Aberdeen and St Johnstone, being the only 'decent' teams in their respective counties, played-off against the winners of the Aberdeenshire and Perthshire cups respectively... whoever won (almost invariably Aberdeen and St Johnstone!) joined the winners of the Forfarshire and Stirlingshire cups in the Dewar Shield. This was to avoid demeaning the Aberdeenshire and Perthshire cups by the Scottish League clubs routing their way through numerous rounds.

Apparently the Perthshire Cup was last played in 1974-75, although the last time you contested a playoff appears to have been against Breadalbane in 1961-62. Dewar Shield had by then been reduced to rather pathetic status and was last played in 1971-72 - though a tie was played the following season, and the cup was brought out of retirement for a preseason friendly a decade later? St Johnstone joined the Forfarshire Cup for 1986-87.

Similarly the Dunbartonshire Cup was last contested in 1936-37 - though it was brought out of retirement for a friendly during the interruption in autumn 1939 following outbreak of WWII - and from 1939-40 Dumbarton played in the Stirlingshire Cup, as Alloa of Clackmannanshire always had.

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Aye here's the details...

St Johnstone played in the Perthshire Cup until 1931-32. From 1932-33 there was a playoff between St Johnstone and the Perthshire Cup winners, though as you can see it was very onesided. In 1963-64 St Johnstone entered the Perthshire Cup again and won ties 10-1, 8-2 and 9-0. After this they simply entered the Dewar Shield directly.


Dewar Shield qualifiers - playoff for champion of Perthshire
1933 - St Johnstone 7-3 Vale of Atholll
1934 - St Johnstone 7-1 Blairgowrie
1935 - Blairgowrie Amateurs 1-11 St Johnstone
1936 - St Johnstone 2-1 Blairgowrie
1937 - St Johnstone 8-0 Breadalbane
1938 - St Johnstone 3-2 Blairgowrie (at Coupar Angus)
1939 - St Johnstone 6-0 Blairgowrie
1940 - St Johnstone 6-1 Black Watch
1946 - St Johnstone 4-2 Infantry Training Company
1947 - St Johnstone 9-0 Breadalbane
1948 - St Johnstone 4-0 Grandtully Vale
1949 - St Johnstone 7-1 Vale of Atholl
1950 - St Johnstone 5-1 Vale of Atholl
1951 - St Johnstone 7-0 Vale of Atholl
1952 - Breadalbane 0-6 St Johnstone
1953 - (over 2 legs) Breadalbane 1-4 St Johnstone; St Johnstone 3-0 Breadalbane
1954 - ?
1955 - ?
1956 - St Johnstone 4-3 Grandtully Vale
1957 - St Johnstone 10-1 Breadalbane
1958 - Breadalbane 2-3 St Johnstone
1959 - St Johnstone 10-0 Breadalbane
1960 - ?
1961 - Breadalbane 1-5 St Johnstone
1962 - ?
1963 - ?

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For completeness here are the details for the Aberdeenshire equivalent. Aberdeen seem to have ceased putting themselves forward from the early 1950s.


Dewar Shield qualifiers - playoff for champion of Aberdeenshire
1935 - Peterhead 1-2 Aberdeen
1936 - Aberdeen 3-0 Keith
1937 - (over 2 legs) Aberdeen 2-1 Buckie; Buckie 0-3 Aberdeen
1938 - (over 2 legs) Fraserburgh 0-1 Aberdeen; Aberdeen 7-0 Fraserburgh
1939 - (over 2 legs) Aberdeen 5-2 Buckie; Buckie 5-7 Aberdeen
1945 - ?
1946 - ?
1947 - ?
1948 - Deveronvale 2-3 Aberdeen
1949 - (over 2 legs) Aberdeen 3-3 Peterhead; Peterhead 0-1 Aberdeen
1950 - (over 2 legs) Aberdeen 2-2 Peterhead; Peterhead 0-2 Aberdeen
1951 - (over 2 legs) Aberdeen 5-1 Deveronvale; Deveronvale 0-7 Aberdeen

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The League Cup sections have nothing to do with the Renfrewshire Cup being patched. It wasn't held two seasons ago under the old format. Morton being in the same league as* Saint Mirren is responsible for ending it for now.

























* stomping all over

1495223928322.jpg

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Just to confirm, they're definitely still doing the seeding based on the previous season's league positions even for promoted/relegated sides? So Inverness Caley Thistle will be in Pot 1 with Hibs in Pot 2 as @HibeeJibee has it, rather than the far more sensible method of having Hibs in Pot 1 and ICT in Pot 2?

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14 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Nothing has been confirmed regarding seeding but they did it that way last season so no indication that it would be changed.

Last season's seeding doesn't provide any evidence either way.  Hibs qualifying for Europe as a lower league side meant that there were 9 Premiership sides in the group stage.  The teams who finished 4th-11th in the previous campaign were seeded in Pot 1, and both Dundee Utd (12th in Prem) and Rangers (1st in Championship) were seeded in Pot 2.

However, the rule book does appear to suggest that the seeding is done based on the previous season (Rule 4.6), although it makes it clear that the seeding is at the discretion of the SPFL board.

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So how does this pan out then?

North Seeds 1 of Hearts / County / Dundee / ICT

South Seeds 1 of Thistle / Killie / Well/ Hamilton

North Seeds 2 of Hibs / Falkirk / Dundee Utd / Dunfermline

South Seeds 2 of Morton / QoS / Dumbarton / St Mirren?

 

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