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New clubs in the East of Scotland


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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

You're absolutely right and any claims to greater excitement in the Juniors are clearly, clearly rubbish.

However, there were far more fans at the Junior Cup final that at any of the matches you mentioned, even to the top of L1, and that was a relatively low cup final attendance. And correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the town of any of the winners of those matches would have seen an open-top bus tour, or any of the excitement that winning the Junior Cup brings. I've seen the Junior Cup come to Linlithgow three times and there's nothing remotely like it below winning the Scottish Challenge Cup. Open top bus, three times round the cross, party along the High Street all evening in front of shop windows all decorated for the game. Honestly, it's wonderful. 

I'll really, really miss the Junior Cup and the answer isn't to sneer about those who love it; the answer is surely to work to open it up to all non-league seniors too. 

Agree with you completely, South Challenge Cup is obviously no-one where close to it in so many ways. Losing so many teams from the East in the Junior Cup, and of course the impending likelihood of everyone coming together under the one banner, means this season is obviously the last one there will be in it's current, long history. I'd hope, within time, if  everything did come together as one then a non-league version could emerge to take it's place, with all the old/ same teams competing and of course a few additions on top. If everything was a bit more seamless in the rest of the country than it has been in the east (unlikely) then it could even have a bit of continuity and be regarded as a continuation of the current cup in a sense.

 

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2 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

As much as I'm intrigued by how it'll all turn out. I can't help but get the impression you're more excited by the process than football.

Edited by Sergeant Wilson
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38 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

As much as I'm intrigued by how it'll all turn out. I can't help but get the impression you're more excited by the process than football

My interest is multi-faceted - history of Scottish Non-League football, groundhopping and fascination with re-structuring (and respective views for and against the pyramid). I would love to see the SJFA eventually absorbed into the SFA for the greater good of Scottish football. Junior football has had a truly wonderful heritage but in my view it is time to move on and embrace change and establish a structure fit for the 21st century.

A start would be to allow Non-League clubs, both Junior and Senior, to enter a revamped "Junior Heritage Cup".

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19 hours ago, GordonS said:

Last season Largs Thistle's last match of the season, at home v Talbot so it could have been an occasion for them, was played TWO MONTHS after their penultimate game.

A couple of scheduled free weekends is nothing.

Being a bit of a Groundhopper I suspect you were there. I was there too and blogged about it. After visiting Millport and treating the missus to a meal at Nardini’s I treated myself to a goalless draw where Tucker Sloan started himself for Talbot  :)

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1 hour ago, Marten said:

Sounds decent enough. Although maybe it's better to have a pot of "top seeds" consisting of LTHV, Bonnyrigg & Linlithgow (LTHV instead of Hawick based on last season). Then there are 12 remaining "EOS" teams and 24 newcomers, both numbers can be divided by 3.

The play-offs could be carried on across the league, so lower clubs play for classifications & qualification for next season's leagues. In that way each club is guaranteed 15 home games.

The 16th Premier League spot should be reserved for Clydebank, whose application for entry (tier 6 'arrangement') was agreed on a deferred basis, owing to ground problems for 2018/19.  There is no guarantee that a West pyramid feeder league will be agreed between the PWG and the SJFA. If not, most West clubs might chose to stay Junior.

This may be clearer after the SJFA AGM ?

 

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1 minute ago, Robert James said:

The 16th Premier League spot should be reserved for Clydebank, whose application for entry (tier 6 'arrangement') was agreed on a deferred basis, owing to ground problems for 2018/19.  There is no guarantee that a West pyramid feeder league will be agreed between the PWG and the SJFA. If not, most West clubs might chose to stay Junior.

This may be clearer after the SJFA AGM ?

 

If you play for classifications, it's easier to form the premier league. If 1 club gets promoted to the LL, no clubs come down and Clydebank join a WoSFL, the numbers 2-17 can join the EOS Premier. If no club gets promoted to the LL, 2 clubs come down and Clydebank are accepted straight into the EOS Premier, the numbers 1-13 can join the EOS Premier. And so various other scenarios are possible.

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9 hours ago, cowdenbeath said:

You can also chuck in Alloa's dramatic last gasp play off win at Dumbarton.

 

The bottom of the prem was pretty dramatic too, as Ross County looked like scraping 11th till Partick took the lead at Dens on the hour mark, consigning County to derby games against their big neighbours next season ;)

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20 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

My interest is multi-faceted - history of Scottish Non-League football, groundhopping and fascination with re-structuring (and respective views for and against the pyramid). I would love to see the SJFA eventually absorbed into the SFA for the greater good of Scottish football. Junior football has had a truly wonderful heritage but in my view it is time to move on and embrace change and establish a structure fit for the 21st century.

A start would be to allow Non-League clubs, both Junior and Senior, to enter a revamped "Junior Heritage Cup".

 

1 hour ago, Marten said:

That looks amazing! Straight on my groundhopping wish-list! ;)

Though I’m not a big groundhopper, as I try to watch my two clubs as much as possible, I do use the groundhopper app by Kepermat, and recommend it if you’re not already using it. Being an auld git, I have been to a fair number of grounds anyway, and this was helped by ICT starting at the bottom in 1994.

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Just now, The Mantis said:

 

Though I’m not a big groundhopper, as I try to watch my two clubs as much as possible, I do use the groundhopper app by Kepermat, and recommend it if you’re not already using it. Being an auld git, I have been to a fair number of grounds anyway, and this was helped by ICT starting at the bottom in 1994.

Yes, I use the Groundhopper app quite a lot. It's fantastic! :)

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2 hours ago, GordonS said:

You're absolutely right and any claims to greater excitement in the Juniors are clearly, clearly rubbish.

However, there were far more fans at the Junior Cup final that at any of the matches you mentioned, even to the top of L1, and that was a relatively low cup final attendance. And correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the town of any of the winners of those matches would have seen an open-top bus tour, or any of the excitement that winning the Junior Cup brings. I've seen the Junior Cup come to Linlithgow three times and there's nothing remotely like it below winning the Scottish Challenge Cup. Open top bus, three times round the cross, party along the High Street all evening in front of shop windows all decorated for the game. Honestly, it's wonderful. 

I'll really, really miss the Junior Cup and the answer isn't to sneer about those who love it; the answer is surely to work to open it up to all non-league seniors too. 

 

Have a crowdw@nk if you must, but comparing a cup final to league games is hardly comparing like with like for a number of reasons. We thought we had blown it, otherwise the crowd would have been double. And Albio Rovers brought 40 fans. Raith pulled in 4500 with not too many Alloa fans there. And believe me, the pubs in Ayr were jumping that night.

I don't know the official attendance at Cumnock yesterday, but it wouldn't been too near the attendance at Ayr or Montrose, never mind Raith. I was disappointed at the Talbot turnout yesterday, especially considering the proximity.

I agree that the Junior Cup should become a non-league competition, a la FA Trophy or Vase.

 

Edited by RedEd
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1 hour ago, Robert James said:

The 16th Premier League spot should be reserved for Clydebank, whose application for entry (tier 6 'arrangement') was agreed on a deferred basis, owing to ground problems for 2018/19.  There is no guarantee that a West pyramid feeder league will be agreed between the PWG and the SJFA. If not, most West clubs might chose to stay Junior.

This may be clearer after the SJFA AGM ?

 

A west league does not need the agreement of sjfa

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1 hour ago, The Mantis said:

Being a bit of a Groundhopper I suspect you were there. I was there too and blogged about it. After visiting Millport and treating the missus to a meal at Nardini’s I treated myself to a goalless draw where Tucker Sloan started himself for Talbot  :)

I was indeed there, and I was at Nardini's beforehand too!

1 hour ago, The Mantis said:

Though I’m not a big groundhopper, as I try to watch my two clubs as much as possible, I do use the groundhopper app by Kepermat, and recommend it if you’re not already using it. Being an auld git, I have been to a fair number of grounds anyway, and this was helped by ICT starting at the bottom in 1994.

I might give that a go, I just use a spreadsheet. I count some grounds that others might not - Oriam indoor and Oriam outdoor separately, for instance, plus former grounds like Spartan's old City Park,  so even though I've put my grounds on footballgroundmap.co.uk it's missing a few.

I only started when I was bored in a meeting at work and idly dooded a map of Scotland with dots for the football grounds I'd been to. I was really surprised to see I only had 7 league grounds left, and had been to a bunch of others. It's a dangerous habit once it get a hold but I really like going to parts of the country I otherwise probably would never have seen.

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1 hour ago, falkirktv said:

A west league does not need the agreement of sjfa

Yes you are correct, but will the West clubs break ranks if the SJFA (1) insists on clubs being all in or all out of the WoL, or (2) sticks out for the SJFA to run the WoSL ?

The PWG is very unlikely to accept (2) as it is an SFA pyramid. Hence my question about clubs "breaking ranks".

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Thanks to this thread, I've put The Groundhopper app on my phone tonight and just lost two hours of my life cross referencing my photos to fixture lists to identify long forgotten games!

Fortunately my phone was replaced early in 2017 and I'm too tight to pay for the older fixtures so I can now stop searching!

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If there is some form of continuation of a non league cup the sjfa should have nothing to do with running it. Their teams in the west are playing Sat, Mon, Wed, Sat for the foreseeable to finish the season. Granted the weather hasn't been great this year but the insistence to give the Cup priority and have replays has delayed the seasons finish. The sjfa can't get the season finished with the current number of clubs in said Cup, how would they propose to do so with more teams from the eos and sos leagues? 

If there is a national non league Cup the eosfl should run it, they seem to be able to do these things better than the sjfa do :-) 

Edited by Guest
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Think it's the SFA that would need to run a national non-league cup and it's easy enough to do the very limited range of things that the SJFA actually does at the moment by setting up a committee with representatives from the various tier 6 and below feeders. If the SFA had been serious about setting up a pyramid rather than having the shambolic mess that has unfolded, direct affiliation of the three juniors regions to place them on par with the EoS and SoS  would have been the first order of business.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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Given the interest and dare i say excitement generated by the New EOS leagues this can only be good for all concerned 

I predict the forth coming season to be one of the most exciting years the EOS has ever had

I congratulate all teams involved and  i am confident that it will  not disappoint 

I for one will be taking in more games in the EOS as some of the possible match ups will be terrific 

 

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2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think it's the SFA that would need to run a national non-league cup and it's easy enough to do the very limited range of things that the SJFA actually does at the moment by setting up a committee with representatives from the various tier 6 and below feeders. If the SFA had been serious about setting up a pyramid rather than having the shambolic mess that has unfolded, direct affiliation of the three juniors regions to place them on par with the EoS and SoS  would have been the first order of business.

I disagree that what we have is a shambolic mess because the SFA haven't done anything. They formed the LL and invited applications from all of the non league set up..... I wouldn't call that shambolic. 

What clubs have done is chosen to move to a well run league, within a well run association with limitless boundaries upwards, meaning they can ensure their existence in years to come.... Again not shambolic in any way. 

Unless of course you have your sjfa tinted glasses on.

The SFA have been serious about a pyramid structure from the outset, what they were never going to do is give the sjfa free reign to come and go as they please, operate at what level the sjfa feel they should operate at, and give the sjfa priority over any other associate member of the current pyramid set up.....

In essence the sjfa had their chance, they blew it, the pyramid has moved on and progressed, clubs within the sjfa now feel the pyramid is their best option, and blind panic has set in throughout the sjfa which has developed a blame culture either towards the clubs moving or the SFA..... I'd suggest looking closer to home first then further afield..... 

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1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

I disagree that what we have is a shambolic mess because the SFA haven't done anything. They formed the LL and invited applications from all of the non league set up..... I wouldn't call that shambolic. 

What clubs have done is chosen to move to a well run league, within a well run association with limitless boundaries upwards, meaning they can ensure their existence in years to come.... Again not shambolic in any way. 

Unless of course you have your sjfa tinted glasses on.

The SFA have been serious about a pyramid structure from the outset, what they were never going to do is give the sjfa free reign to come and go as they please, operate at what level the sjfa feel they should operate at, and give the sjfa priority over any other associate member of the current pyramid set up.....

In essence the sjfa had their chance, they blew it, the pyramid has moved on and progressed, clubs within the sjfa now feel the pyramid is their best option, and blind panic has set in throughout the sjfa which has developed a blame culture either towards the clubs moving or the SFA..... I'd suggest looking closer to home first then further afield..... 

In addition what have the PWG achieved so far? (Not sure how long they have been around - tbh)

We are where we are due to the actions of teams not the governing bodies.  Fully functioning Governing Bodies should lead not follow.

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