Jump to content

New clubs in the East of Scotland


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

I've heard this argument a lot of times, but I don't really get where it's coming from.  The East of Scotland League sits at the bottom of the pyramid and is the only place that any club in the east of Scotland who want to participate in the pyramid can apply to.  They have run more than one division in the past, and will do so again next season.  There is no real reason why they couldn't even run three or four divisions if need be.  What you are essentially saying is that they should stop letting perfectly viable and acceptable teams in right now, just in case several Junior clubs want to apply a couple of years down the line.  That would be unfair on the new clubs, and would stand against the very principles of the pyramid system.

A perfectly reasoned response - which is perfectly sound in it's conclusions.  

My personal issue continues to be  the inability of the SFA who failed to lead wider change when the LL was introduced.  Done properly even entering the bottom tier should  come via a playing pathway (feeder leagues) with proper conditions of entry attached opposed to open entry.

What I can't get my head around from your reply is 'Viable and Acceptable teams'  for me that doesn't happen via open applications.    Instead you get a mixed bag and the danger you actually dilute/rather than improve.   For me the  concept of the Pyramid should be to improve football and that must involve quality control.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

A perfectly reasoned response - which is perfectly sound in it's conclusions.  

My personal issue continues to be  the inability of the SFA who failed to lead wider change when the LL was introduced.  Done properly even entering the bottom tier should  come via a playing pathway (feeder leagues) with proper conditions of entry attached opposed to open entry.

What I can't get my head around from your reply is 'Viable and Acceptable teams'  for me that doesn't happen via open applications.    Instead you get a mixed bag and the danger you actually dilute/rather than improve.   For me the  concept of the Pyramid should be to improve football and that must involve quality control.

 

 

The EoS does have requirments.  It just so happens several clubs are meeting those requirements and deciding to move over at the same time. 

I'd think Hillfeild swifts would probably be considered one of the weaker applicants.  But as a strong community club with plans to develop their ground I don't see how why they'd be rejected when you look at other sides that have come into the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Realistically, what are the LEAFA and KFAFA going to do if the above teams do leave without notice?

 

Couldn’t tell you I’m not involved in they Associations possibly make them change names.Im sure a similar scenario was where kennoway star hearts were born out of after kennoway failed to give adequate notice when changing leagues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
Couldn’t tell you I’m not involved in they Associations possibly make them change names.Im sure a similar scenario was where kennoway star hearts were born out of after kennoway failed to give adequate notice when changing leagues.
Kennoway became Kennoway star hearts when they moved to the juniors.Kennoway were in the Kingdom league then folded and the players and manager went to Star Hearts and seen the season out
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Unfortunately that won't happen far to many people from Linlithgow are still on page one of the argument - ill informed over the implications of any decision stay or go and a club unwilling to have the conversation.

I am not a fan of the concept - that said I have read the argument and listened to HTG, I have come to the conclusion that participation is the only viable option as we move forwards.

Your chairman is quoted as saying Linlithgow are a progressive club that don't want to be left behind and who have aspirations of getting to the SPFL. Presumably that's a personal opinion as it's clear the club is going in the opposite direction.

Care to explain why you are not a fan of the concept of a pyramid?

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Done properly even entering the bottom tier should  come via a playing pathway (feeder leagues) with proper conditions of entry attached opposed to open entry.

What I can't get my head around from your reply is 'Viable and Acceptable teams'  for me that doesn't happen via open applications.    Instead you get a mixed bag and the danger you actually dilute/rather than improve.   For me the  concept of the Pyramid should be to improve football and that must involve quality control.

So where is the playing pathway for teams entering the SJFA East Region pyramid? Craigroyston joined the South Division two seasons ago, which feeder league did they come from and how did they actually improve the league?

The concept of a pyramid means that anyone can join at the bottom - quality control is carried out by the process of promotion/relegation.

And given that most of the teams applying for the EoS will be better than bottom placed Tweedmouth, by definition they will improve the league, and in time the extra numbers will allow two divisions which will each be more competitive than this season's 13 team league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Your chairman is quoted as saying Linlithgow are a progressive club that don't want to be left behind and who have aspirations of getting to the SPFL. Presumably that's a personal opinion as it's clear the club is going in the opposite direction.

Care to explain why you are not a fan of the concept of a pyramid?

So where is the playing pathway for teams entering the SJFA East Region pyramid? Craigroyston joined the South Division two seasons ago, which feeder league did they come from and how did they actually improve the league?

The concept of a pyramid means that anyone can join at the bottom - quality control is carried out by the process of promotion/relegation.

And given that most of the teams applying for the EoS will be better than bottom placed Tweedmouth, by definition they will improve the league, and in time the extra numbers will allow two divisions which will each be more competitive than this season's 13 team league.

My own personal view is Scottish football has far to many teams already playing at a level beyond their means and capabilities with little or no support from their wider community.  Whilst I acknowledge the idea of a pyramid has plenty of merit - the realities to me are we encouraging teams to false levels.

I believe my own club has reached it's natural level and the danger of chasing the next step is a step to far.

That said - despite my reservations, I have acknowledged my personal utopia isn't the consensus and as such I have admitted the need to embrace change.  Unfortunately - my reservations are mild compared to many members at Linlithgow - who have not been engaged with other than negatively by vociferous Nay Sayers.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The EoS lost a huge number of members over a short period of time.  The future looked very bleak at one point especially losing two clubs to the juniors.

Now they have a chance to grow and there's potential to be the most important league in the east longer term.  They would be crazy to turn down clubs assuming they all meet the minimum criteria (which won't be very high considering that clubs don't need a licence to be in the league).

I'm sure they will be accepting all of the juniors clubs who apply this season.  No inside knowledge but it makes sense.  Accept these clubs and grow the leage and get more new clubs the following season.  Turning down juniors now would be completely pointless and it is certainly not the job of the EoS to worry about what positions the applicants finished in last season and if clubs who haven't applied finished higher than the applicants. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

My own personal view is Scottish football has far to many teams already playing at a level beyond their means and capabilities with little or no support from their wider community.  Whilst I acknowledge the idea of a pyramid has plenty of merit - the realities to me are we encouraging teams to false levels.

I believe my own club has reached it's natural level and the danger of chasing the next step is a step to far.

That said - despite my reservations, I have acknowledged my personal utopia isn't the consensus and as such I have admitted the need to embrace change.  Unfortunately - my reservations are mild compared to many members at Linlithgow - who have not been engaged with other than negatively by vociferous Nay Sayers.  

 

 

As an outsider I see Rose in a perfect position - right in the middle of the biggest catchment area for players, from a town that is in one of the wealthiest parts of the country.... http://simd.scot/2016/#/simd2016/BTTTFTT/11/-3.6985/55.9561/

With a population of about 20,000 you could sustain regular 4 figure crowds (I believe the sensible limit for any urban area is 10% but that doesn't take into account existing allegances) . With the revenue available in the higher reaches, increased wage costs are offset. Linlithgow Rose, with the right guidance, could conceivably become the biggest semi pro side in the country. That will never happen in Junior football. What will attract a bigger crowd (long term) to Prestonfield - games vs. Dundee United or St. Mirren or games vs Bathgate or Forfar West End?

Edited by cmontheloknow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

My own personal view is Scottish football has far to many teams already playing at a level beyond their means and capabilities with little or no support from their wider community.  Whilst I acknowledge the idea of a pyramid has plenty of merit - the realities to me are we encouraging teams to false levels.

I believe my own club has reached it's natural level and the danger of chasing the next step is a step to far.

That said - despite my reservations, I have acknowledged my personal utopia isn't the consensus and as such I have admitted the need to embrace change.  Unfortunately - my reservations are mild compared to many members at Linlithgow - who have not been engaged with other than negatively by vociferous Nay Sayers.  

 

 

Given your Chairman's recent comments in the media on where he wants the club to be, has there been any form of EGM to discuss the issue and the possibility of moving to the EoS? it is after all the major issue affecting the East Region.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

My own personal view is Scottish football has far to many teams already playing at a level beyond their means and capabilities with little or no support from their wider community.  Whilst I acknowledge the idea of a pyramid has plenty of merit - the realities to me are we encouraging teams to false levels.

I believe my own club has reached it's natural level and the danger of chasing the next step is a step to far.

That said - despite my reservations, I have acknowledged my personal utopia isn't the consensus and as such I have admitted the need to embrace change.  Unfortunately - my reservations are mild compared to many members at Linlithgow - who have not been engaged with other than negatively by vociferous Nay Sayers.  

 

 

How do you test your theory in the first two paragraphs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

As an outsider I see Rose in a perfect position - right in the middle of the biggest catchment area for players, from a town that is in one of the wealthiest parts of the country.... http://simd.scot/2016/#/simd2016/BTTTFTT/11/-3.6985/55.9561/

With a population of about 20,000 you could sustain regular 4 figure crowds (I believe the sensible limit for any urban area is 10% but that doesn't take into account existing allegances) . With the revenue available in the higher reaches, increased wage costs are offset. Linlithgow Rose, with the right guidance, could conceivably become the biggest semi pro side in the country. That will never happen in Junior football. What will attract a bigger crowd (long term) to Prestonfield - games vs. Dundee United or St. Mirren or games vs Bathgate or Forfar West End?

For that to happen we would need to see a drive to encourage such growth.   We have a mixed bag of an ageing committee/support set in their ways - and others who are willing to look beyond the past.   Personally I don't think we market ourselves as well as we could

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Given your Chairman's recent comments in the media on where he wants the club to be, has there been any form of EGM to discuss the issue and the possibility of moving to the EoS? it is after all the major issue affecting the East Region.

NO  - a sore point for me.  Communications need to improve and thinking beyond AGM is the time for your say and leave it to us otherwise approach

1 hour ago, Marshmallo said:

How do you test your theory in the first two paragraphs?

Purely personal opinion  - I'm not claiming to be right or logical in my opinions but honest enough to voice how I feel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Auld Heid said:

For that to happen we would need to see a drive to encourage such growth.   We have a mixed bag of an ageing committee/support set in their ways - and others who are willing to look beyond the past.   Personally I don't think we market ourselves as well as we could

NO  - a sore point for me.  Communications need to improve and thinking beyond AGM is the time for your say and leave it to us otherwise approach

Purely personal opinion  - I'm not claiming to be right or logical in my opinions but honest enough to voice how I feel

I do believe that just going into SPFL can awaken latent interest and can bring forward investors. LR's position geographically would boost them. The ageing committee and support will not be there forever and will be replaced one day, perhaps by more people looking to the future's potential than the past's glories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

For that to happen we would need to see a drive to encourage such growth.   We have a mixed bag of an ageing committee/support set in their ways - and others who are willing to look beyond the past.   Personally I don't think we market ourselves as well as we could

NO  - a sore point for me.  Communications need to improve and thinking beyond AGM is the time for your say and leave it to us otherwise approach

Purely personal opinion  - I'm not claiming to be right or logical in my opinions but honest enough to voice how I feel

I thought the SJFA had called for all Junior clubs to hold an EGM about the pyramid. Have I got this wrong ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I thought the SJFA had called for all Junior clubs to hold an EGM about the pyramid. Have I got this wrong ? 

No, it's the SJFA that are having an EGM although date not yet set, probably immediately preceding the AGM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By my reckoning, the only West Lothian team ever to have competed in the East of Scotland League were Bathgate FC after they resigned from the Scottish Football League at the end of season 1928-29.  They joined the EoS and won it the next two seasons 1929-30 and 1930-31 but they then withdrew to join the Edinburgh & District Senior League, but they only lasted a further season before folding.

So Blackburn United will be the first members of that league from West Lothian in 87 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

By my reckoning, the only West Lothian team ever to have competed in the East of Scotland League were Bathgate FC ...

Bo'ness is in West Lothian, so there have been two and that would have been up to 1939, so it will be 79 years.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...