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John Lambies Doos

Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

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45 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:


Apparently I'm thick though so no need to worry..

Yep.; not sure why you needed one hundred words of filler for that. 

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57 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:


 but i can sense what's happening outside P&B.

:lol:

You mean you, like everyone else, noticed that the Tories beat Labour in 2016 and that, as every single bit of news media has been repeating for weeks, are likely to beat them in June.

Have you ever tried to determine if you have supernatural powers of perception?

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1 hour ago, Elixir said:

Does the inevitable defeat that would come in a referendum if held in the near futute make you feel better?

There are many lessons to be learned, but the fact remains that a referendum will be far more winnable when the current 60+ demographic are in their box.

As someone who is part of the 60+ demographic I hope we don't have to wait that long but if so I hope you're right.  Nonetheless it should be borne in mind that people change over time.

One thing that won't help is the attacks on older folk by the 'progressive' sorts who castigate OAPs and buy into,and indeed promote, the Tory them-and-us agenda.

 

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1 hour ago, Elixir said:

Does the inevitable defeat that would come in a referendum if held in the near futute make you feel better?

There are many lessons to be learned, but the fact remains that a referendum will be far more winnable when the current 60+ demographic are in their box.

That is clearly an opinion and not a fact.

Some yes voters like myself have been turned off towards No or neutral and language like yours and thousands like you has not helped.

The generation right behind the 60+ IMO will become more likely to vote No as they approach pension age.

And one final thing. The 60+ generation have as much of a right to vote as you or I.

In fact, given that they have paid more in taxes than the rest of us you could argue they have more right to have their opinion. 

They have the right to be treated with respect as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Fair answer.

I think generally the 'middle ground' in politics has shifted largely to what we'd see as the left over the long term, to the point where, as you say even right-wing governments nowadays are not willing to roll back a lot of the significant contributions which have come from the left over the last century.

Even though some of the the things you mention might have come from a more modern 'right-wing' party I think right-wingers of a century or two ago would have seen employee rights and 'equality in the workplace legislation' as incredibly left wing.

People are often far too polariised in their views and anyone who thinks that one side has all the answers or even that there are a set of perfect answers to every problem are clearly deluded but I don't actually think 'whining bollox' as you put it (online or not) is all that bad a thing. Yes stuff like the NHS might have been devised by people with vision sitting down in a room and coming up with creative solutions but I'd bet that came about after the crescendo of bitching and moaning about poor health reached a critical mass.

Society is (or should be) the constant effort to fix problems and identify new ones. Personally I see complaining as society's way of deciding amongst themselves which problems are serious enough to merit the most attention. You, I or anyone can sit on P&B or down the pub and be as constructive or negative as we like about these things but ultimately we're all just howling into the void about it, on a personal level.

IMO it is not whining which forces change.

It is almost always patient and calm argument, reason and moderate centrist views which win the day.

That is what finally brought about equal rights for women, gays, blacks etc. Enough powerful moderates were persuaded of the benefits of change.

History teaches us that the 10%-ers simply prolong the misery because their actions provoke the ego of their opponents.

If you want to win, you should strategically aim to convince powerful moderates of your case and isolate the 10%-ers.

That is why people posting and talking absolutely crap about No voters will actually risk bringing about another No vote for example.

Edited by oaksoft

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That is clearly an opinion and not a fact.
Some yes voters like myself have been turned off towards No or neutral and language like yours and thousands like you has not helped.
The generation right behind the 60+ IMO will become more likely to vote No as they approach pension age.
And one final thing. The 60+ generation have as much of a right to vote as you or I.
In fact, given that they have paid more in taxes than the rest of us you could argue they have more right to have their opinion. 
They have the right to be treated with respect as well.
 


Yes, some people approaching 60+ will move from Yes to No; however percentage difference yes/no in that age group will narrow over time.

Can't really disagree with rest of your post tbf.; although struggle to believe you were yes and now no

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3 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 


Yes, some people approaching 60+ will move from Yes to No; however percentage difference yes/no in that age group will narrow over time.

Can't really disagree with rest of your post tbf.; although struggle to believe you were yes and now no

 

I didnt say I was No.

I am neutral, and I have posted exactly why I have shifted.

Joking apart. The attitude of Yessers is getting to be a serious concern. Just on this one forum the hatred pours out pf people for those 60+ just because they dared to vote in a different way. This is vitriolic poison and it should be getting challenged by the army of "compassionate" lefties on here. It should be but it isnt.

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I didnt say I was No.
I am neutral, and I have posted exactly why I have shifted.
Joking apart. The attitude of Yessers is getting to be a serious concern. Just on this one forum the hatred pours out pf people for those 60+ just because they dared to vote in a different way. This is vitriolic poison and it should be getting challenged by the army of "compassionate" lefties on here. It should be but it isnt.



Maybe, but so should a major broadcasters bias which is the main source of news for these 60+ folk

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

That is clearly an opinion and not a fact.

You express almost nothing but opinions so what the f**k are you on about. And your opinions are usually big sacks of shite.

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4 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

^^^^^
Not enjoying the journey..

^^ coffin dodger

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You express almost nothing but opinions so what the f**k are you on about. And your opinions are usually big sacks of shite.


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4 hours ago, HTG said:

You express almost nothing but opinions so what the f**k are you on about. And your opinions are usually big sacks of shite.

Bud, if I need to explain to you the difference between a fact and an opinion I am afraid there is really nothing to be done for you.

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6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Bud, if I need to explain to you .

Oaksoft in a nutshell.  Condescending and lecturing.

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^^ coffin dodger

Judging by the state of some SNP voters and young Scots generally im fairly confident I'll outlive a fair few of them to be honest.

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He's a Farfir fan (average age 87 and three quarters)

I think there could be the basis of some kind of TV show here.Top bantz or something.

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Scottish independence voting intention:

Yes: 51%
No: 48%

(Panelbase/Sunday Times / 30/04/17)

#ScotRef

May, Corbyn and Farron will be up in no time. 

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I really don't trust the polls anymore.

That's 2 polls in a row showing a sharp rise in Labour support for the GE & now an indy poll showing Yes in the lead.

Welcome as they may be for anti-Tory supporters UK-wide or indy supporters like myself up here I have a sneaking suspicion these polls are being 'designed' to ensure that the Tory voters come out across the UK & to avoid complacency from their voter base.

Hope I'm wrong mind.

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Scottish independence voting intention:
Yes: 51%
No: 48%
(Panelbase/Sunday Times / 30/04/17)
#ScotRef
May, Corbyn and Farron will be up in no time. 


This is good...

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Believing that folk genuinely hate the elderly on an internet forum that you despise , and allowing your misconception to change your voting habits  :lol:

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