DrewDon Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I read 'commentariat' as 'concomitant' in NTP's post, there. Sure that won't be the only time for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Nobody is actually scared of Momentum apart from centrist melts that are just upset that they're getting played an absolute dullion at the game they were supposedly winners of. And Brexit's one issue that's obviously not that important to Corbyn and his team because a) they aren't in government and can't alter the trajectory until they win an election and b) because contrary to the belief of the commentariat there isn't a magical position Labour can take that will pump them 20 points ahead in the polls so no position is best for a party that'll do what's expedient in winning power and delivering a social democratic manifesto. Centrist melts describes pretty much the whole PLP. On the rest of it, Brexit is the dominant political theme of this generation, it will inform every regulatory, trade, tax and spending decision for the next 5 years or more. You can't ignore it, or it's effects. By not taking a stand, by trying to straight bat it you aren't giving anyone an over riding reason to bother voting for you. Edited December 12, 2017 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, renton said: Centrist melts describes pretty much the whole PLP. On the rest of it, Brexit is the dominant political theme of this generation, it will inform every regulatory, trade, tax and spending decision for the next 5 years or more. You can't ignore it, or it's effects. By not taking a stand, by trying to straight bat it you aren't giving anyone an over riding reason to bother voting for you. I see no lie... And yet 12 million people did and tons of new voters at that. Also I think Labour can safely ignore it for now because they're in opposition and can't and don't have to do much to stop the Tories from continuing to f**k it up. 10 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: The reason Brexit isn't important to Corbyn is because it's what he wants. He's always wanted the UK out of the EU, and he's only being true to form. He can get fucked. Honestly this portrayal of Corbyn and his supporters as malevolent Brexiteers who'll take us out of the EU at any cost is the most middle class horror story I've ever read. They're ambivalent at best on Brexit and I imagine they'll do what's expedient in order to tackle what actually matters to them like wealth inequality or re empowering the unions. 19 minutes ago, DrewDon said: I read 'commentariat' as 'concomitant' in NTP's post, there. Sure that won't be the only time for a while. I can only aspire to big Jim's knowledge of vocabulary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Corbyn three line whipped the hardest brexit possible, three seperate times. In what way would you like this portrayed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, NotThePars said: I see no lie... And yet 12 million people did and tons of new voters at that. Also I think Labour can safely ignore it for now because they're in opposition and can't and don't have to do much to stop the Tories from continuing to f**k it up. Honestly this portrayal of Corbyn and his supporters as malevolent Brexiteers who'll take us out of the EU at any cost is the most middle class horror story I've ever read. They're ambivalent at best on Brexit and I imagine they'll do what's expedient in order to tackle what actually matters to them like wealth inequality or re empowering the unions. I can only aspire to big Jim's knowledge of vocabulary. It matters less that the Tories f**k it up and more that Labour are seen to have a position, a relatable, honest and coherent position. There are two reasons for this. 1. Opposition to individual measures is made easier, every hard decision the Tories make can be pounced on, if Labour were predictive in their opposition. If they don't support or oppose any part of the Brexit settlement then their opposition is weightless and out come the old insults 'magic money tree' 'Labour said nothing about this when they had the chance' 'U-turning' etc. 2. You have to give people a reason to vote for you, the impression of a party simply waiting for it's opponent to implode under the weight of impossible decisions, sitting on their hands while issues of national importance are decided without them is hardly an appetising proposition. It might be good Westminster politics, hell it might even be good for the Labour party but more importantly it's bad for the country. Politicians tend not to be remembered fondly for putting party before country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: Corbyn three line whipped the hardest brexit possible, three seperate times. In what way would you like this portrayed? At least he's consistent in his voting. For leaving the EEC in 1975, against Maastricht, against Lisbon. It's when he opens his mouth that he pretends to be all things for all people. Against freedom of movement but for the single market. Haven't heard his strategy for achieving this though, so you have to go by his votes and 3 line whips. Hardcore Brexiteer it would appear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Malevolent Brexiteer it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Malevolent Brexiteer it is. Not sure what welshbairn thinks but he gives not a single f**k about others above getting out of the UK and his votes are the proof. You want to show otherwise, do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Not The Pars is such a Jeremy Corbyn fanboi it’s no real. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Randy Giles said: Not sure what welshbairn thinks but he gives not a single f**k about others above getting out of the UK and his votes are the proof. You want to show otherwise, do that. My point was that he has priorities greater than UK's membership (continued or not) of the EU. I also said that the party isn't a dictatorship and I imagine that those other priorities, which have united the party and have been significant in mobilising a whole section of the electorate that never bothered to engage with politics will trump the dear leader's long term desire to sail us out the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Malevolent Brexiteer it is. I'm sure he's a Brexiteer because he believes it's the right thing to do, just like Tony Blair and Iraq. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Leaving the EU should be a massive priority for any serious opposition. It's going to have a negative effect on a huge percentage of the electorate. Why is it not a priority? It's not a priority because he wants it to happen. Stop dancing around it and accept he's completely wrong on this. Oh, and "the party isn't a dictatorship" apart from being three line whipped on this three times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Taking your country out of a supranational institution is not equivalent to destabilising a country and killing over one million people and it's incredibly privileged to even vaguely equate the two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Randy Giles said: Leaving the EU should be a massive priority for any serious opposition. It's going to have a negative effect on a huge percentage of the electorate. Why is it not a priority? It's not a priority because he wants it to happen. Stop dancing around it and accept he's completely wrong on this. Oh, and "the party isn't a dictatorship" apart from being three line whipped on this three times. What do you think happens right now to a party that explicitly opposes leaving the EU? What happened to the MPs who voted against? 10 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: Not The Pars is such a Jeremy Corbyn fanboi it’s no real. I'm actually quite critical of him when I'm involved in Labour hings and have found him disappointing for a number of reasons. I still find his, Abbott's, McDonnell's et al's politics to be much better than pretty much anyone on here would probably name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 What happened to MPs who voted against was that they got sacked... because they ignored Corbyn's very own three line whip. So why the f**k do you bring that up as if you have a point? The rest is whataboutery. Corbyn has danced around the subject of brexit constantly and even opposed the Tories at times, and then when it's come to a vote, he's gone with them every single time, and forced his MPs to do the same. Why are you continuing to go on this path? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Taking your country out of a supranational institution is not equivalent to destabilising a country and killing over one million people and it's incredibly privileged to even vaguely equate the two. I stand corrected if that's what you thought I meant, which I didn't. Has "privileged" gained a new meaning from 4chan like triggered and snowflake? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Of course Jezza is a hard brexiteer he thinks he can nationalise everything when we are out of the Eu 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I stand corrected if that's what you thought I meant, which I didn't. Has "privileged" gained a new meaning from 4chan like triggered and snowflake? lol that's even more blatant than your bad comparison. 5 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Of course Jezza is a hard brexiteer he thinks he can nationalise everything when we are out of the Eu Where's the issue here? I'm all for nationalising everything. The railways, energy, Greggs, the Harry Potter books... Edited December 12, 2017 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, NotThePars said: lol that's even more blatant than your bad comparison. Just asking what "privileged" means in that context. I honestly don't know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Where's the issue here? I'm all for nationalising everything. The railways, energy, Greggs, the Harry Potter books... Because in old enough to remember when loads were nationalised and they were fucking shite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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