Bedford White Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 minute ago, jmothecat said: Why should we? This idea that just because he is the leader we shouldn't disagree with decisions or the direction we are going in is ludicrous. By that logic Corbyn and the left should have left the party during the New Labour era, but they didn't, they argued their case, did what they thought was right and we fought alongside each other. That's what the moderates are doing now. This idea that we should all just follow what the glorious leader thinks or leave the party isn't helpful to anyone. Progress put a lot of effort into campaigning, them leaving the party to self-indulgently create a moderate Labour Party wouldn't help moderates, wouldn't help Corbyn and wouldn't help the people we are fighting to get elected for. Unlike Paul Mason, Jeremy Corbyn sat on the Labour benches alongside comrades with varying different views, the strength of the Labour Party is that we are a broad church, welcoming of people across the left. I don't have a problem with a broad church but surely even you can see the actions of the likes of Progress and many in the PLP in attempting to bring down a democratically elected leader by the biggest membership of any political party in Europe went against party values. Does this not resonate with you? Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we'll keep the red flag flying here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Why should we? This idea that just because he is the leader we shouldn't disagree with decisions or the direction we are going in is ludicrous. By that logic Corbyn and the left should have left the party during the New Labour era, but they didn't, they argued their case, did what they thought was right and we fought alongside each other. That's what the moderates are doing now. This idea that we should all just follow what the glorious leader thinks or leave the party isn't helpful to anyone. Progress put a lot of effort into campaigning, them leaving the party to self-indulgently create a moderate Labour Party wouldn't help moderates, wouldn't help Corbyn and wouldn't help the people we are fighting to get elected for. Unlike Paul Mason, Jeremy Corbyn sat on the Labour benches alongside comrades with varying different views, the strength of the Labour Party is that we are a broad church, welcoming of people across the left. Bedford has this. Debate and discussion are all well and good - but some of the shenanigans over the last year or two has been shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I don't have a problem with a broad church but surely even you can see the actions of the likes of Progress and many in the PLP in attempting to bring down a democratically elected leader by the biggest membership of any political party in Europe went against party values. Does this not resonate with you? Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we'll keep the red flag flying here! We had a leadership contest due to perceived failures in the leadership. Corbyn won again, and the party have got on with it. Trying to convince a large chunk of the party to leave isn't helpful at all. Nobody is trying to subvert party democracy at all. The fact remains that Corbyn isn't a great leader, he's a good campaigner, but a poor leader. Nothing the PLP did last year was wrong other than choosing such a no mark as Owen Smith to run against him. Aside from anything else why would you want people like Progress or other moderates to leave and create another party? How does that help? I don't agree with Progress on everything but I can see the value they bring to our movement and party and just struggle to see how trying to force away the Labour moderates is going to help the party. Literally the only thing I can see it achieving is making it easier for people from the left to retain the leadership long term. I wonder if that is Mason's true long-term goal. He would rather lose with Corbyn as leader than win with Blair. When cowards flinch and traitors sneer, seems to me that leaving the party is the more cowardly and treacherous act than staying and fighting for what we believe is best for the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The PLP and Progress are a collection of melts who have called everything consistently wrong since Corbyn was elected leader. Them, and jmo, can argue all they want but they were comprehensively seen off and rightfully look like little slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The PLP and Progress are a collection of melts who have called everything consistently wrong since Corbyn was elected leader. Them, and jmo, can argue all they want but they were comprehensively seen off and rightfully look like little slugs. Whether that's true or not, what's the benefit of trying to convince us to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just now, jmothecat said: Whether that's true or not, what's the benefit of trying to convince us to leave? It's funny? I can't think of much funnier than Ian Murray and Yvette Cooper graciously offering to serve in Corbyn's shadow cabinet before getting swiftly shot down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Whether that's true or not, what's the benefit of trying to convince us to leave? Giving the electorate the chance to vote for politicians that actual believe in their party's policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Giving the electorate the chance to vote for politicians that actual believe in their party's policies? Why would they not believe in their own policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Why would they not believe in their own policies? Because right now they are Labour politicians and it's in the job description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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