June 8th General Election

[Fide]

6 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

No worries about that.  You started early.

Could be worse.  I could be an old lush who gets hammered on tonic wine every Friday night for escape so I can drunkenly post pish on a politics sub forum.

[mjw]

If only it was just a Friday.

[Antlion]

14 hours ago, strichener said:

There is no collective responsibility in the Scottish Parliament.  Why would someone who is vehemently opposed to something not continue to hold their position?  Are you expecting MSPs from Unionist parties to roll-over and allow the referendum?  Do you expect the SNP to act similarly in regards to Westminster decisions and if not, why not?

That's the tired line I was expecting - but the glaring difference is that the SNP do not deny the legislative competency of Westminster. In fact, their raison d'etre is ending it because they recognise it as a damaging thing. They fully work within the Westminster system, and following the 2014 result, they promised to keep doing so, not attempting to offer Scotland withdrawal until there was a material change in circumstances.

Of course, if you can point out an example of the Westminster parliament voting in favour of a referendum, and the SNP then saying that the people who elected that parliament should not be offered that referendum despite that vote, I'm all ears.

If not, I am expecting the regionalist MSPs to "roll over" and accept that the parliament they are part of has voted in favour of a referendum. They don't need to champion it, and it's fully their right to campaign against their nation's sovereignty, but to say that the parliament they sit it in should not even be listened to (despite the precedent) makes me question why they even bother embarrassing themselves in it.

[Baxter Parp]

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10974/leading-expert-scottish-tories-will-help-westminster-claw-back-powers-scotland-after

Leading expert: Scottish Tories will help Westminster “claw back” powers from Scotland after #GE17

Professor Michael Keating says “re-centralising” power likely during Brexit process

SCOTLAND’S FOREMOST academic researching constitutional matters has said that he believes the Scottish Conservatives will aid in a Westminster effort to “claw back” Scottish Parliament powers following the General Election.

Not worrying at all.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

18 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10974/leading-expert-scottish-tories-will-help-westminster-claw-back-powers-scotland-after

Leading expert: Scottish Tories will help Westminster “claw back” powers from Scotland after #GE17

Professor Michael Keating says “re-centralising” power likely during Brexit process

SCOTLAND’S FOREMOST academic researching constitutional matters has said that he believes the Scottish Conservatives will aid in a Westminster effort to “claw back” Scottish Parliament powers following the General Election.

Not worrying at all.

Whilst it would be a dick move and pretty undemocratic of the Tories to do this, I can't see it being anything other than a benefit to the Yes campaign in the long term.

The only folk supporting this would be the ultra unionists and would lead to the loonball faction being more vocal in calling for the complete removal of Holyrood.

Yes would pick up some more soft No voters. It would also be a severely damaging blow to any future No campaign, effectively handicapping them as they would be unable to promise more devo powers without being completely laughed out the room.

[sparky88]

7 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Whilst it would be a dick move and pretty undemocratic of the Tories to do this, I can't see it being anything other than a benefit to the Yes campaign in the long term.

The only folk supporting this would be the ultra unionists and would lead to the loonball faction being more vocal in calling for the complete removal of Holyrood.

Yes would pick up some more soft No voters. It would also be a severely damaging blow to any future No campaign, effectively handicapping them as they would be unable to promise more devo powers without being completely laughed out the room.

If May refusing the referendum didn't result in a surge in support for independence, taking back a few powers won't do anything.

[strichener]

17 hours ago, Antlion said:

Given the Scottish Parliament has legislated to seek a second referendum, can anyone explain why Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie are opposing it? It genuinely seems that they have no place in a parliament whose rights, processes and decisions they absolutely deny.

 

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

That's the tired line I was expecting - but the glaring difference is that the SNP do not deny the legislative competency of Westminster. In fact, their raison d'etre is ending it because they recognise it as a damaging thing. They fully work within the Westminster system, and following the 2014 result, they promised to keep doing so, not attempting to offer Scotland withdrawal until there was a material change in circumstances.

Of course, if you can point out an example of the Westminster parliament voting in favour of a referendum, and the SNP then saying that the people who elected that parliament should not be offered that referendum despite that vote, I'm all ears.

If not, I am expecting the regionalist MSPs to "roll over" and accept that the parliament they are part of has voted in favour of a referendum. They don't need to champion it, and it's fully their right to campaign against their nation's sovereignty, but to say that the parliament they sit it in should not even be listened to (despite the precedent) makes me question why they even bother embarrassing themselves in it.

In terms of the referendum, no I cannot provide an example.  In terms of accepting the result of a referendum then quite clearly they exhibit the same inability to except the will of the parliament (Westminster) as you accuse the Unionist of doing in Scotland.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

9 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

If May refusing the referendum didn't result in a surge in support for independence, taking back a few powers won't do anything.

May's refusal was spun as 'now is not the time' rather than 'no, never again' and was backed by Labour and the Lib Dems. There is also a number of Yes voters who were not keen on another referendum so soon.

Labour and the Lib Dems would oppose the taking back of powers (they're anti-independence but largely pretty pro-devolution) and would be put in a very awkward constitutional position if it happened.

[ChrisMFCfan1886]

Rumours of a Lab/Con deal in North Lanarkshire too

[Antlion]

50 minutes ago, strichener said:

 

In terms of the referendum, no I cannot provide an example.  In terms of accepting the result of a referendum then quite clearly they exhibit the same inability to except the will of the parliament (Westminster) as you accuse the Unionist of doing in Scotland.

Where is this example of the SNP being unable to "except" (I assume you mean "accept") the will of parliament (Westminster)? I think you're mistaking opposition (a reasonable part of democracy) with actively trying to prevent the outcome of a vote happening by campaigning for election to a separate parliament (and even councils) on the promise to prevent it.

I assume the referendum you refer to is the EU referendum. Where and when have the SNP attempted to ignore the will of the UK parliament here? Last I saw, they lost the opposition to Article 50 vote by some margin; it passed through the parliament, and the SNP have not since then tried to claim that the UK should not leave the EU.

This is what the Scottish regionalist parties are doing. Having lost the vote in Holyrood, they are now not opposing the expressed desire to hold a referendum by fighting to overturn it there, but campaigning in elections to other democratic institutions to thwart it. What's odd about your entirely predictable "but the SNP" response to my questioning the point of regionalists sitting in a parliament they hold in contempt is that the SNP make no bones about their desired Scottish withdrawal from the UK system. The regionalist parties, by and large, seem to champion Holyrood when it suits them, and campaign against its rights and mandate when it doesn't.

[John Lambies Doos]

If May refusing the referendum didn't result in a surge in support for independence, taking back a few powers won't do anything.

Bottom line is that Scotland has a fair amount of craven servile shitebags
At this juncture I would fully support a referendum based on full independence vs the abolition of the Scottish parliament. Let's end this thing once and for all...

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

Where is this example of the SNP being unable to "except" (I assume you mean "accept") the will of parliament (Westminster)? I think you're mistaking opposition (a reasonable part of democracy) with actively trying to prevent the outcome of a vote happening by campaigning for election to a separate parliament (and even councils) on the promise to prevent it.

I assume the referendum you refer to is the EU referendum. Where and when have the SNP attempted to ignore the will of the UK parliament here? Last I saw, they lost the opposition to Article 50 vote by some margin; it passed through the parliament, and the SNP have not since then tried to claim that the UK should not leave the EU.

This is what the Scottish regionalist parties are doing. Having lost the vote in Holyrood, they are now not opposing the expressed desire to hold a referendum by fighting to overturn it there, but campaigning in elections to other democratic institutions to thwart it. What's odd about your entirely predictable "but the SNP" response to my questioning the point of regionalists sitting in a parliament they hold in contempt is that the SNP make no bones about their desired Scottish withdrawal from the UK system. The regionalist parties, by and large, seem to champion Holyrood when it suits them, and campaign against its rights and mandate when it doesn't.

So SNP MPs against leaving EU = OK.  Unionist MSPs against leaving UK = Not OK.  It really is this simple in your head.

[Antlion]

45 minutes ago, strichener said:

So SNP MPs against leaving EU = OK.  Unionist MSPs against leaving UK = Not OK.  It really is this simple in your head.

Which SNP MPs are trying to prevent the UK leaving the EU, and how, exactly?

You didn't so much answer that as misrepresent what you wished I'd said. For what it's worth I'm fine with regionalist MSPs fighting tooth and nail to prevent Scotland achieving statehood. What I queried was why they'd sit in a parliament whilst actively claiming the mandate of that parliament should be disregarded. I'd say "nice try", but that paltry few lines of guff you posted wasn't.

[paolo2143]

I personally hope Angus Roberston retains his seat at least he knows how to handle Mrs M :-), her face is a picture lol

 

 

[Sooky]

 

 

Stupid. Keeping the students in the totals is stupid.

 

In fact, the whole target is stupid as it'll never be met. As it's not been for years.

[williemillersmoustache]

Conservative Manifesto.

• Charge more to hire foreign workers
• Charge foreigners more to use the NHS
• Scrap winter fuel payments
• Abolishing infant free school meals
• More money for b*****ds
• Congestion charge waiver if you're hunting a tramp across London on horseback

[mizfit]

Theresa May will be in Perth on Friday apparently dealing with members of the public.

The conservatives offices happen to be near Scone airport if anyone would like to ask her questions...

[Sooky]

This seems a very traditional definition of conservatism. A fair departure from Thatcher onwards who redefined the term.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

" We do not believe in untrammelled free markets. We reject the cult of selfish individualism. We abhor social division, injustice, unfairness and inequality. "

[HTG]

12 hours ago, mizfit said:

Theresa May will be in Perth on Friday apparently dealing with members of the public.

The conservatives offices happen to be near Scone airport if anyone would like to ask her questions...

She should go to Shettleston now that it's apparently a tory stronghold.