June 8th General Election

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, strichener said:

You are going to have to explain to me how voting for the SNP will "stop a Tory MP filing through the lobbies for Theresa Mays programme of government".

 

Scotland's MPs can only ever be in opposition in its own sovereign parliament as long as England chooses a different party of government. Scotland is a minor region of the UK, and can only ever play a role in its own national government if England lets it.

Because the UK is not a union of equal nations.

[NotThePars]

8 minutes ago, strichener said:

You are going to have to explain to me how voting for the SNP will "stop a Tory MP filing through the lobbies for Theresa Mays programme of government".

 

 

Do an Eric Joyce and spark out any Tory propping up Theresa May?

[strichener]

Just now, Antlion said:

Scotland's MPs can only ever be in opposition in its own sovereign parliament as long as England chooses a different party of government. Scotland is a minor region of the UK, and can only ever play a role in its own national government if England lets it.

Because the UK is not a union of equal nations.

Typically irrelevant.  It in no way addresses how the SNP's maximum 59 MPs can "stop a Tory MP filing through the lobbies for Theresa Mays programme of government".  

You just can't help yourself, so desperate are you to push this repetitive point across.

 

[Fide]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

Typically irrelevant.  It in no way addresses how the SNP's maximum 59 MPs can "stop a Tory MP filing through the lobbies for Theresa Mays programme of government".  

You just can't help yourself, so desperate are you to push this repetitive point across.

 

Way to miss the point.

[strichener]

Just now, NotThePars said:

 

Do an Eric Joyce and spark out any Tory propping up Theresa May?

I'm not sure that the odds stack up even with this.  No doubt Labour MPs would also get in the way as they made there way to the exits to stop them from having to take a position.   Just getting passed Dianne Abott could see the division over.

[strichener]

Just now, Fide said:

Way to miss the point.

OK, I concede the point was missed.  When the post stated that ONLY  the SNP could stop the Tories voting in May's agenda then what was really meant was _________________________

Please fill in the blank

[Fide]

8 minutes ago, strichener said:

OK, I concede the point was missed.  When the post stated that ONLY  the SNP could stop the Tories voting in May's agenda then what was really meant was _________________________

Please fill in the blank

Except that's not what Anltion's post said at all.

That aside, 10/10.

[Baxter Parp]

[Antlion]

26 minutes ago, strichener said:

Typically irrelevant.  It in no way addresses how the SNP's maximum 59 MPs can "stop a Tory MP filing through the lobbies for Theresa Mays programme of government".  

You just can't help yourself, so desperate are you to push this repetitive point across.

 

You know there's no answer to your inane question, other than that SNP MPs can argue against Tory policy in the debating chamber (which is what it's for) and put forward the views on which they were elected.

As usual, you're looking for a dead-end argument simply so you can think yourself superior. Your MO hasn't changed - a rather sad desire to argue with strangers online so that, presumably, you can assure yourself that you're much more thoughtful and considered than anyone else.

[oneteaminglasgow]

13 minutes ago, strichener said:

OK, I concede the point was missed.  When the post stated that ONLY  the SNP could stop the Tories voting in May's agenda then what was really meant was _________________________

Please fill in the blank

Fucking hell.

In Scottish constituencies, the only way to try to stop the Conservative candidate being elected is to vote SNP. This will then stop that Conservative candidate from helping to vote through whatever May's, no doubt awful, agenda will be.

No-one is suggesting that the SNP alone will be able to stop the Conservatives from doing what they want.

[J_Stewart]

18 hours ago, beermonkey said:

Someone else posted this on facebook, pretty much sums up the whole plan.

 

Here's how this general election bollocks is going to play out if we allow it. Theresa May has been told by her Bilderberg masters that it's time to bring Brexit to an end and stick the UK firmly back in the EU before we've even left. They've told her this is how we're gong to do it. Call a general election and make up some bollocks reason for it. Corbyns pro EU Labour Party will then be given strong backing in the media and will use anti-elitist propaganda with slogans like 'power to the people' -- Interesting they believe you can give the people more power by sticking them back In the EU, thus removing over 75% of decision making from UK parliament and then giving a percentage of the 25% remaining to the people lol -- this is designed to appeal to the waining middle class, the working class and in general anyone sick of elitism, which is mostly everybody. Next, Corbyn, predictably, says he won't rule out a second referendum resulting in every Remainer in the country, and those disillusioned with the referendum result, who voted leave, also voting labour. The conservatives are already massively unpopular and Theresa May looks like a dishevelled wicked witch of the West so Labour already has a big advantage. Labour win the election and immediately call for a second EU referendum, which this time will be rigged in favour of remain. And there we go, the UK back in the EU. No doubt the elites also made a financial killing by Brexit happening in the first place through inside knowledge trading, while all along knowing exactly how they were going to stick us back in their dirty little centralisation of power cooking pot. Then on they go with the imposition of the European Superstate, along with an EU army to fight alongside the US against Russia, China, North Korea and Iran -- job done!!!

Genuinely think this might be the most mental post I've seen on this website, and I once saw PerthshireBell playing a game of battleships with himself.

Still not coming across as big an idiot as Stoned Sailor or McSpreader mind you.

[moses1924]

With regard tactical voting as a Labour voter I would consider voting tory if I thought it would keep out the SNP, at present constitutional matters dominate proceedings and unless the issue of a second indyref is not a factor this will continue to be the case. I don't think this should necessarily be a reason to castigate those on the No side who choose to vote tactically, most supporters of independence will vote SNP / green regardless of their policies until independence is achieved, it is therefore perfectly reasonable for those on the other side to do the same.

As for the influence of Scottish MP's at Westminster, 50+ SNP members could hold the balance of power if there was a near even number of Labour / tory MP's so it is conceivable that they could have a great deal of influence, I don't think this is what will happen as I think the torries will win easily but returning an SNP MP could still mean an influence over proceedings.

[DrewDon]

Imagine claiming to be a Labour supporter but somehow managing to get yourself more worked up about the socially democratic SNP supporting an independence referendum than the increasingly right-wing Tories' enthusiasm for the rape clause and welfare reforms that are driving people to their graves. Utterly bizarre. 

[Jambomo]

3 hours ago, jmothecat said:

The unionist tactical voting thing boggles my mind a little bit. I don't like the SNP but I'm struggling to understand how any Labour voter could see a Tory MP as better than an SNP one, particularly with the hardline traditional Tory politics Theresa May is representative of. Unless the issue of independence is pretty much the be all and end all of your politics, which I think is a lot less likely in no voters than yes voters but that's purely anecdotal and could be total rubbish, then why would you vote for there to be another Tory MP?

I see the Tories have come out to say that Labour and Lib Dem voters should vote Conservative tactically to stop the SNP. I live in an SNP/Labour marginal (not that I expect it to be anything other than an SNP victory), if I get any Tory doorknockers during this campaign I'm going to ask them if they are planning on voting Labour to stop the SNP.

I agree with you. Even for those who are really against independence, whilst voting SNP probably does enable a second vote, a vote is all it is.

How can any Labour voter ever vote for the Tories? Not least a Tory party that is currently as right wing and brutal as they have ever been. Saying that I would struggle to see how Labour voters could be comfortable with their own party even suggesting working with the Tories. Even not being a fan of the SNP, they are surely ideologically closer than the worst Tory party ever?

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, DrewDon said:

Imagine claiming to be a Labour supporter but somehow managing to get yourself more worked up about the socially democratic SNP supporting an independence referendum than the increasingly right-wing Tories' enthusiasm for the rape clause and welfare reforms that are driving people to their graves. Utterly bizarre. 

Precisely this. The only logical choice, unless of course you're a Conservative, is to vote SNP. Labour are an absolute joke at the minute, completely incapable of composing themselves into a coherent opposition and the Lib Dems would gladly climb into bed with the Conservatives if given even the slightest chance to do so. The SNP have already ruled out ever working with the Tories (not that the Tories would ever ask them, to be fair) and are at least capable of not undermining their leader at every opportunity.

Even if you don't support independence, the SNP should be the logical choice to stand up to the Conservatives.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Fide said:

Except that's not what Anltion's post said at all.

That aside, 10/10.

Sorry, I will mind read next time rather than read what you actually post.

[strichener]

38 minutes ago, moses1924 said:

With regard tactical voting as a Labour voter I would consider voting tory if I thought it would keep out the SNP, at present constitutional matters dominate proceedings and unless the issue of a second indyref is not a factor this will continue to be the case. I don't think this should necessarily be a reason to castigate those on the No side who choose to vote tactically, most supporters of independence will vote SNP / green regardless of their policies until independence is achieved, it is therefore perfectly reasonable for those on the other side to do the same.

As for the influence of Scottish MP's at Westminster, 50+ SNP members could hold the balance of power if there was a near even number of Labour / tory MP's so it is conceivable that they could have a great deal of influence, I don't think this is what will happen as I think the torries will win easily but returning an SNP MP could still mean an influence over proceedings.

For this to hold water, then it would require the SNP and the other parties to vote in the same way.  Therefore it doesn't make the SNP the only party that can stop the Tories.  Returning 59 Labour MPs would achieve the same in your hypothesis.

 

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Fucking hell.

In Scottish constituencies, the only way to try to stop the Conservative candidate being elected is to vote SNP. This will then stop that Conservative candidate from helping to vote through whatever May's, no doubt awful, agenda will be.

No-one is suggesting that the SNP alone will be able to stop the Conservatives from doing what they want.

No, no-one is suggesting that except for the poster that I originally quoted that used the word "only".

[jmothecat]

With regard tactical voting as a Labour voter I would consider voting tory if I thought it would keep out the SNP, at present constitutional matters dominate proceedings and unless the issue of a second indyref is not a factor this will continue to be the case. I don't think this should necessarily be a reason to castigate those on the No side who choose to vote tactically, most supporters of independence will vote SNP / green regardless of their policies until independence is achieved, it is therefore perfectly reasonable for those on the other side to do the same.
As for the influence of Scottish MP's at Westminster, 50+ SNP members could hold the balance of power if there was a near even number of Labour / tory MP's so it is conceivable that they could have a great deal of influence, I don't think this is what will happen as I think the torries will win easily but returning an SNP MP could still mean an influence over proceedings.

The difference is the SNP are centrist and not particularly controversial so I can see how someone on the right or someone on the left could feel justified voting for them without it going against their ideology. What I struggle with is someone on the left voting for an MP who will back Theresa May's hardline conservatism or someone on the right voting for someone who would put Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister. The unionist parties are pretty polarising.

Tactically voting Lib Dem I could understand, though again wouldn't personally do mainly as I think if the chance presented themselves they would bend over backwards to prop up the Tories again.

I also wouldn't vote for the SNP tactically over the Tories, though that idea appeals to me more and I would prefer the SNP to win the seat. I still disagree with the party and disagree with independence and the token act of voting for who I want to win isn't the only reason I vote but it is meaningful for me even if it's effectively a wasted vote.

[DrewDon]

Pahahahaha. Shut the f**k up, you utter roaster. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, moses1924 said:

With regard tactical voting as a Labour voter I would consider voting tory if I thought it would keep out the SNP, at present constitutional matters dominate proceedings and unless the issue of a second indyref is not a factor this will continue to be the case. I don't think this should necessarily be a reason to castigate those on the No side who choose to vote tactically, most supporters of independence will vote SNP / green regardless of their policies until independence is achieved, it is therefore perfectly reasonable for those on the other side to do the same.

Except for the fact that the Greens and the SNP are not a million miles apart on other political issues, which makes tactical voting a credible decision. Laebur are currently posturing as the most left-wing, radical and 'progressive' 'mainstream' 'political party'; yet here you are considering a tactical vote for the most right-wing governing party in the UK since Thatcher. 

1 hour ago, DrewDon said:

Imagine claiming to be a Labour supporter but somehow managing to get yourself more worked up about the socially democratic SNP supporting an independence referendum than the increasingly right-wing Tories' enthusiasm for the rape clause and welfare reforms that are driving people to their graves. Utterly bizarre. 

Or like Kez in her blog back in the day, being unable to give a clear yes or no answer as to whether having a pro-Indy MSP would be better than having a Unionist BNP member. That's 'progressive', 'internationalist' Scottish Labour for you.