jmothecat Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yep, progressing at a rate of knots to complete and utter obscurity. Quite possibly. This election has to be about damage limitation. From what I can see I think Corbyn knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, jmothecat said: Quite possibly. This election has to be about damage limitation. From what I can see I think Corbyn knows it. Then why did he not vote against it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: That did run through my head when I was saying that tbh. But as you say, for the most part, the MPs in Labour are basically Tory enablers. The evidence of that has been delivered in spades, especially in the last few months. Corbyn himself has played his part as well. That's worth mentioning. I think Corbyn's a good man but he doesn't have the ruthlessness to deal with the slugs and snakes in the PLP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I used to like Corbyn and felt that some of the vitriol and demeaning of him by the media was out of order. I agreed with, still do, some of his policy and on the political spectrum I'm on his side. I felt that, surely, it was wrong for him not to be supported by the PLP being that he was hugely popular in the wider party. Still, somewhere deep down, I wish that the Labour Party could somehow get their shit together in England. It pains me in some ways to see them in such a shambolic state. But Corbyn can take himself directly to f**k now. He doesn't have a clue about Scottish politics or why the people vote the way that they do. With that latest statement he is insulting most of the Scottish electorate by saying that only Labour or the Tories can win the election. Scottish people have woken up to the fact that how we vote will always be trumped by how England votes. When he is as ignorant and dismissive as that how can he expect to win any support in Scotland, does he even care? How he can't see that he is hammering the nails into the Labour party's coffin by remaining as leader is beyond me. It makes sense to believe that he's an obstinate, selfish man with an ego to match. He's probably only got six weeks of his political career left now though, so every cloud n' that. It's interesting that, Diane Abbott aside, I've yet to hear a Labour MP come out in support of him in this election. Secretly, some of them will be pleased that this is happening and will see it as the opportunity to finally eject the imbecile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, jmothecat said: His choice was to either reject the proposal or not to. He made the correct choice. When talking about the choice being between Labour and the Tories he is talking to the people he knows we probably need to attract if we are going to ever win an election again. He knows we aren't going to win this election, his job right now is to avert disaster. Disaster would be 2015 Labour voters lending their votes to other progressive parties in seats that we are genuinely contending for. It isn't floating Tory/Lib Dems who will be paying attention to his statement today but 2015 Labour voters who may be tempted by the anti-Brexit stance of the Lib Dems. He needs to focus their minds and try to convince as few of them as possible to jump ship imo. Labour would probably benefit from some 2015 voters transferring to the LDs in, for example, LD/Tory marginals in the south-west of England. Playing the 'Us or Them' card might be more effective if Labour and its leadership were perceived as competent or as a 'government in waiting'; as it stands, however, they are viewed as the very opposite - which is why I would expect such a message/strategy to yield significantly more success for the Tories than Labour at the ballot box in June, just as in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Would it not have made more sense for Corbyn to give a wooly, "let's just see where this goes guys" non-commital (ie typical politicians response, iirc Blair was very good at it) response, rather than saying the exact same things regarding a coalition Milliband did that worked so spectacularly last time around? Not giving an answer when the question is designed to be loaded to give your opponents ammo is basic politicking id have thought - im sure ive heard Sturgeon on fmq's dodge a few such questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Would it not have made more sense for Corbyn to give a wooly, "let's just see where this goes guys" non-commital (ie typical politicians response, iirc Blair was very good at it) response, rather than saying the exact same things regarding a coalition Milliband did that worked so spectacularly last time around? Not giving an answer when the question is designed to be loaded to give your opponents ammo is basic politicking id have thought - im sure ive heard Sturgeon on fmq's dodge a few such questions... A lot of Miliband's problem was that he rejected the coalition idea far too late which gave the Tories the chance to give the Labour/SNP thing traction. He's come out at pretty much the first opportunity to reject the notion out-right and that's the correct decision. Stops the Tories from using an attack which worked well for them in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 The Tories don't give the faintest whaff of shite about Labour criticising them. They're under investigation for electoral fraud and have just announced another election ffs. May knows that a TV debate wouldn't do her any favours so she's just saying nah to it with zero fucks given. They're so teflon it's about 90% infuriating, 10% admirable. Labour on the other hand have spent years jumping through hoops for the Tories and the tabloids. There are so many ways that Labour need to change but the very top of that list would be to get a bit of backbone and shrug off some Tory criticism for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Alan Stubbs said: The Tories don't give the faintest whaff of shite about Labour criticising them. They're under investigation for electoral fraud and have just announced another election ffs. May knows that a TV debate wouldn't do her any favours so she's just saying nah to it with zero fucks given. They're so teflon it's about 90% infuriating, 10% admirable. Labour on the other hand have spent years jumping through hoops for the Tories and the tabloids. There are so many ways that Labour need to change but the very top of that list would be to get a bit of backbone and shrug off some Tory criticism for once. Not only that she's said those under investigation will be allowed to stand in this election. Fair play for that hustle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Alan Stubbs said: The Tories don't give the faintest whaff of shite about Labour criticising them. They're under investigation for electoral fraud and have just announced another election ffs. May knows that a TV debate wouldn't do her any favours so she's just saying nah to it with zero fucks given. They're so teflon it's about 90% infuriating, 10% admirable. Labour on the other hand have spent years jumping through hoops for the Tories and the tabloids. There are so many ways that Labour need to change but the very top of that list would be to get a bit of backbone and shrug off some Tory criticism for once. I thought admitting 100% responsibility for the financial crisis was an awful idea. If that happened on the Conservative's watch, they would not take a single ounce of the blame and probably pretend it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Tories: Corbyn will work with the SNP. Corbyn: I will not work with the SNP. Tories: Oh no! It is beyond our abilities to continue to make capital from this attack line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 6 hours ago, stonedsailor said: So it's not about social change for you? It's just about indy and sticking it to the English? And the Welsh...c***s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/04/theres-already-progressive-alliance-uk-its-called-labour-party "There's already a progressive alliance in the UK - it's called the Labour party" "progressive" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Scottish Greens already talking about not standing in the border constituencies in order to help the SNP and rid Scotland of the Tories. Not that it'll make much difference mind, they actually lost their deposits in both last time anyway. This is a UK wide election for the UK wide government. Nationalists are so narrow-minded and insular. It's not about society for the SNP it's only about independence. Screw everyone else. Fluffy won his constituency by a margin just under the number of votes that the Greens got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Itv confirming they are televising a leadership debate, trying to force May's hand I guess. They should have an empty chair to emphasise the point that she has refused to debate. I also won't be surprised if we have someone in a chicken suit following her round the campaign trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Can't believe Nicola would even consider forming an anti-tory alliance with the shambolic Jeremy Corbyn. She cannot be serious. I don't think she is - she knows Labour will turn it down - she can then play the 'Vote Labour get the Tories' card. If they do play ball then it would dissuade Labour voters from switching to the Tories in Scotland.Win-win I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 The Tories don't give the faintest whaff of shite about Labour criticising them. They're under investigation for electoral fraud and have just announced another election ffs. May knows that a TV debate wouldn't do her any favours so she's just saying nah to it with zero fucks given. They're so teflon it's about 90% infuriating, 10% admirable. Labour on the other hand have spent years jumping through hoops for the Tories and the tabloids. There are so many ways that Labour need to change but the very top of that list would be to get a bit of backbone and shrug off some Tory criticism for once. The backbone bit is so true - you just wish they had a Harry Perkins leader who took on the duplicitious b*****ds in the press and exposed them for what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 23 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: They should have an empty chair to emphasise the point that she has refused to debate. I also won't be surprised if we someone in a chicken suit following her round the campaign trail. They really should! Stick their logo/colours on it too. Although I fear especially the BBC, they'll end up calling it 'The Opposition Debate' or something pish and let May get easily off with it. I wouldn't want the debate to be overshadowed by her not being there and it being constantly brought up, but the empty podium/chair would do enough, and bring enough attention that she couldn't be bothered with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Londonwell said: Why not? The tories are the ones she needs to go after and she knows Labour won't go for it anyway. Painting herself as reasonable and willing to compromise. Painting herself as reasonable and willing is the only thing she does well and you suckers buy into that shit. I actually believe that every single thing she says is calculated bullshit . Her disingenuity is so obvious it's transparent meaning it's difficut for the less than conscionable amongst you to see it for what it is. I'm voting Conservative for the first time in my life. They are the only Party actually taking their resposibilities to the nation seriously at the moment.. Everyone else is playing a game. The time for gameplaying is over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Being pointed out on Twitter that today's Sun and Mail front pages have gone to print less than a year after a woman was murdered for her politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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