West Region Secretary

[Dindeleux]

When I said "especially league cup games" I didn't mean because of the attendances, I was more focusing on the fact that managers might be more inclined to say a pitch is playable than in an important league game. I could be wildly wrong but I would guess if a park is questionable currently then the referees would ask for each managers opinion and if one says they don't like it the referee is more likely to call the game off. Obviously if the park is terrible then I don't expect referees to go with whatever the managers say.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, Wile E Coyote said:

At least one of the cups has to go though if the league reconstruction plans are to go through though.

As an example lets assume it was in place this season and Talbot win their West quarter and semi. This would mean their fixtures are set until the Junior Cup final.

This would leave them three weeks to play 11 league games, a possible two Ayrshire cup games and a possible two evening times cup games. So 15 games in three weeks, this is impossible. (The 11 league games comes about because we currently have 4 games to play but Troon is already scheduled so three after the Junior Cup final plus the extra 8 that expanding the league will bring)

This was denied on the actual thread of course, but AFAICS there is no way you could go to 30-game leagues and keep the Sectional Cup.

Your figures show this - you'd have to play almost daily for 3 weeks to get finished .

Also things haven't been as tough as they might have been... You only played 3 Scottish Cup ties - didn't reach the competition proper. You only seem to have had 4 postponements, which in a harsh winter would have been more. You got a bye in Ayrshire Cup R1. You only had 1 replay out of a possible 5 in the Junior Cup. Had things worked out differently you'd quite conceivably have anything between a couple and half-a-dozen or more games right now.

That said there are other ways to save games. Scrapping the Ayrshire Cup, abolishing the September holiday weekend, playing at Christmas/New Year, using floodlights - and so on.

[Cyclizine]

using floodlights

Crivens!

[Wile E Coyote]

13 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

That said there are other ways to save games. Scrapping the Ayrshire Cup, abolishing the September holiday weekend, playing at Christmas/New Year, using floodlights - and so on.

Talbot did play the september holiday this year (and do it every year) so it wouldn't even make any difference this year

[clash city rocker]

League Cup quarter finals used to go to replays as did semi and final , clubs used to play each other twice in the sections. West ties went to replays , Ayrshire cup , Central cup , Scottish cup ties went to 2 replays. They couldn't do fixture lists back then and now with all replays apart from 1 cup gone..they still can't produce fixture lists. The only thing certain in juniors is if you draw in a Scottish tie the replay will be following match. The Scottish cup takes precedence over everything , the Sjfa don't care how clubs struggle to get matches arranged as long as their cup rolls along in an orderly fashion. When clubs like Talbot are successful not only in progressing to latter rounds of Scottish but also West , Ayrshire etc it has a knock on effect of delaying other clubs fixtures being played. Cups are a problem until cups are cut a fixture list for any significant length of time is impossible. It was impossible 30 years ago and nothing has changed.

[Glenconner]

23 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

League Cup quarter finals used to go to replays as did semi and final , clubs used to play each other twice in the sections. West ties went to replays , Ayrshire cup , Central cup , Scottish cup ties went to 2 replays. They couldn't do fixture lists back then and now with all replays apart from 1 cup gone..they still can't produce fixture lists. The only thing certain in juniors is if you draw in a Scottish tie the replay will be following match. The Scottish cup takes precedence over everything , the Sjfa don't care how clubs struggle to get matches arranged as long as their cup rolls along in an orderly fashion. When clubs like Talbot are successful not only in progressing to latter rounds of Scottish but also West , Ayrshire etc it has a knock on effect of delaying other clubs fixtures being played. Cups are a problem until cups are cut a fixture list for any significant length of time is impossible. It was impossible 30 years ago and nothing has changed.

Strange to look back on all of that.

Still trying to work why i saw St Roch's playing Petershill at Shettleston probably 40 years ago. Or St Roch's v somebody else? at Shettleston possibly neutral venue. As for big crowds years ago, those two games had hardly a hundred at each of them.

[Kennie]

Your Choice

[cmontheloknow]

9 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Just looked at Talbot's team lines for the league cup this season. There were 4 trialists involved. Three didn't get signed,one did but left after a few weeks

Have a proper pre-season fixture list that isn't 3 games in 6 days before the Sectional. It's what teams do outside the Juniors.

[Monalie]

And still there are no fixtures up beyond this Saturday

 

And now they're up for the 17th

[The Ilford Drummer]

18 minutes ago, Monalie said:

And still there are no fixtures up beyond this Saturday

Wonder if he is in the huff and is saying Get It Up Ye? Any support gained recently has evaporated with this latest farce.

How can the likes of McKenna etc sit back and allow this to happen, it's not just the secy who is unfit for purpose.

[Budandavodka]

Some fixtures just added in the last 30 mins including Cumbernauld v Maryhill on Wednesday 17th May 7.15pm KO at Guys Meadow.

[Vuvuzela]

Here’s my take on a few of the regular debates surrounding this and other threads:

 

Fixture Lists:      A fixture list for one league is easy to set up even by people with limited computer ability, adaptable templates and advice is freely available on the internet. Setting up a programme covering all leagues is a different proposition. The software definitely exists, other league set ups have ground sharing clubs as well, however can we access this and more importantly adapt it to specific circumstances.

 

Midweek Fixtures:  Inevitable and much loved at this time of the year, but badly affect home club income especially clubs who provide bar and hospitality facilities, I suspect this will be the same at most if not all levels of midweek football. On that point, surely the West of Scotland Cup Final will not be played on Saturday 27^th May (which I’ve heard) directly clashing with the Scottish Cup Final less than two miles away on the same day. The Friday night would be an alternative. Similarly give clubs the option to reschedule fixtures away from the Scotland v England match the following week.

 

League Reconstruction:   The current proposals of 4 x 16 teams would mean an increase of exactly 200 league fixtures, 960 against the present 760 – scrapping the League Cups would give back 154 games, is that part of the proposal? Leagues of unequal size bring issues too, the current 14 teams league each have an additional 50 fixtures over the 12 team leagues, however if we are going to reconstruct, it needs to be carefully thought out. As things stand the Evening Times Cup and Play-Offs can mean clubs waiting for leagues other than their own on to reach a conclusion often extending their season by weeks for one or two fixtures. Adding a further forty fixtures in my opinion is not realistic, we all know some grounds simply cannot cope with the current demands.

 

Criticism of Fixtures Man:   I agree that fixtures at a few dates notice should be the exception rather than the rule; many clubs rely on notice to plan their sponsorship and hospitality arrangements, not to mention catering, programmes, travel etc. Fans being kept informed should be THE major consideration. However has anyone who has criticised this every tried to actually do it. I did it for the remainder of the season and although I remained with a few ifs and buts, I was able to schedule all but a handful of the remaining fixtures, it wasn’t over difficult but it was time consuming.

PS. The fixture release in the last hour has FIU.

 

Thanks for reading my first post on P&B.

[Troon Portland]

I see the West Cup Final is on the 27th at Newlandsfield. Genius when the Scottish Cup Final is at Hampden same day, that'll make life easier! [emoji849]

[rednblack]

Watch or that twelve game ban will be increased [emoji4]

[LeedsPhil]

The West Cup Final is not directly clashing with the Scottish Cup Final, since it's a 1pm KO at Newlandsfield versus the 3pm start at Hampden,

but I get Troon Portland's point - travel will be more hassle.

 

[Troon Portland]

Watch or that twelve game ban will be increased [emoji4]

It's not my 12 game ban, but I might get one of my own if I'm not careful! [emoji23]

All kidding apart, I was going to come up to that final on the 27th but not if it's going to be the usual Hampden gridlock. Just seems a shame, another missed opportunity.

[eaglelok]

The West Cup Final is not directly clashing with the Scottish Cup Final, since it's a 1pm KO at Newlandsfield versus the 3pm start at Hampden,

but I get Troon Portland's point - travel will be more hassle.

 

It's still the same day and a 1 o'clock ko for the west final is also a joke. Surely our 2nd biggest west region cup deserves a bit more credit rather than squeezing it in before the senior cup final.

[Brig O'Lea]

On 11/05/2017 at 13:03, Vuvuzela said:

League Reconstruction:   Leagues of unequal size bring issues too, the current 14 teams league each have an additional 50 fixtures over the 12 team leagues, however if we are going to reconstruct, it needs to be carefully thought out.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that in 15 months time we could be starting season 2018/19 with 17 teams in the Central District 1st and 9 teams in the Ayrshire District.  8 home league matches a season for the Ayrshire district clubs!

Something has to give.

[The Ilford Drummer]

Still no game for Largs,??

[Nugent4nil]

Reading through, and commenting, on this it basically comes down to, IMO, one thing. If you are a supporter and member of YOUR club you have a voice, you have a vote, use it wisely! Get your clubs rep to go with your clubs supports views, if they dont get rid of them. Speak to your club and demand change, its OUR game but its not their fault its got to be balanced. If the top men dont change or improve because they dont want or have to then ask your reps if they dont have to because they dont have or need to then ask yourselves.... as club members we ALL have a say in this so pointing fingers at one man, while its so easy ATM, is the easy answer its not THE answer, we as supporters and club members are all responsible for this shambles, it starts at the bottom so change must start from the bottom too.