CityDave Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, ftk said: Champions League, World Cup, NFL etc are all won by a play-off format. The league structure isn't that important anyway. The important factor is the revenue sharing. We need every team at the start of each season to have a real chance of winning the league. I've got a really good idea which would include both league and playoff formats in national competition which can also incorporate a regional set up. Why not revamp the League Cup, it would spice up a mainly stale competition and we can see by the attendances whether it can capture the imaginations of the football supporters in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftk Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I've got a really good idea which would include both league and playoff formats in national competition which can also incorporate a regional set up. Why not revamp the League Cup, it would spice up a mainly stale competition and we can see by the attendances whether it can capture the imaginations of the football supporters in this country. Sounds good mate would love to hear it. Scottish football does need a radical rethink. We do need to get away from the playing each other 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 No, you don't. You need to offer something more than hoovers and phones and throwaway catchphrases with no substance if you want anyone to treat your proposal seriously though. f**k up SD, the congratulations aimed at Dyson was an inspired point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 3 hours ago, jagfox99 said: Is the standard of manager in the Scottish game an issue? Smacks of jobs for the boys. Interesting list. I'd not realised we're the only club with a manager from outwith the British Isles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonMan Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I think a lot of the problems being experienced by Scottish football aren't really exclusive to our game and have been felt in a number of European league - the standard in somewhere like the Netherlands has decreased massively compared to when clubs from there used to be very competitive in the European Cup/CL. Similar could be argued for Portugal. I'm not sure if things like summer football would really change all that much. Someone who's fundamentally not interested in a Championship game between, say, Raith and Queen of the South, isn't going to turn up just because it's quite a nice day. There's a lot that could be worked on in Scottish football - we need to aim to produce more top players since it's a long, long time since we've managed, and there's an argument the league's still have some major structuring problems, but more summer football or less teams being part-time isn't going to do all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, ftk said: Sounds good mate would love to hear it. Scottish football does need a radical rethink. We do need to get away from the playing each other 4 times. Seriously, now on the subject of not playing each other 4 times, how would reducing this back to 2 times and say increasing the size of the league be attractive to clubs, would they not lose money? In your case Ayr Utd would find itself in a second tier minus two to four of the top teams in the current Championship but plus maybe 6 (likely 5 part time teams) from the current League 1, where is the incentive there for a middle club like Ayr Utd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverarover Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I know we keep going on about not having summer football. Why have the Scandinavian countries done so well playing a spring to Autumn season. For years we seem to fly on the myth of the old firm that they need the current football format for European football. Utter garbage we are so bad nowadays that an early season start might get clubs through the qualifying stages. How can we encourage this so called match day experience in mid winter. Pissing rain and freezing cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I'm curious to know, what "matchday experience" does ice hockey or rugby offer that professional football doesn't? Its a line I hear trotted out a lot, but I don't know what in practice it actually means. Summer football is a non-starter - cup finals and season climaxes in late autumn, no time to play postponed games, fucking about for international comps, and frankly I've got better things to do with my Saturdays when the sun is out. Reduced number of teams? If you're starting with a blank canvas maybe, but you're not - and if you were to say merge Falkirk, the Shire, Stenny and the Binos, I doubt the gate would increase much from Falkirk's current level. You'd piss people off, the clubs would start up again in a separate system (juniors maybe), and in any case why are smaller clubs deemed a drain? I'd far rather have a club in every town than the reductio ad absurdum of Sevco v Celtic playing each other 40 times to determine the league. Mandatory full time teams? Financially illiterate proposal. Sharing the wealth more evenly? Yes, probably, but how...sharing gates 60:40? Flat prize distribution? Both would bring in bizarre incentives. And practically never going to work. For me (limited to things that could happen): - unify the playoff formats - offer subsidies for artificial pitches - make TV channels televise at least goals from lower leagues as a condition of getting OF games and cup finals - introduce a mandatory number of under 23s in the senior match day squad - every club to give away a percentage of previous season's attendance (capped at say 1000) in free tickets to local schools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverarover Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I know we keep going on about not having summer football. Why have the Scandinavian countries done so well playing a spring to Autumn season. For years we seem to fly on the myth of the old firm that they need the current football format for European football. Utter garbage we are so bad nowadays that an early season start might get clubs through the qualifying stages. How can we encourage this so called match day experience in mid winter. Pissing rain and freezing cold. People have stated about the summer weather recently but at least it is warm enough to allow grass to grow and the pitch to recover. On visiting eastern Europe football the big difference was the the stadium. The turnstiles are away from the stands and a large concorse areas with seating ,plenty food and drink available. Offer most kids a seat in the freezing cold at a match or a couple of hours at a warm cinema what do you expect most to say. Onto food. I'm sorry but £1.80 for a cup of coffee you buy in the pound shop for four for a pound. Some grounds , a meal deal,,,,,,, a fucking deal !!!! A fortune for a shabby pie ,juice and crisps for about a fiver. At Starks Park the hot food selection is a scotch pie or a steak pie, that's it !!! Utter dreadfull. I can go on. £23 to get into Easter road in the championship. My own club charging £20 to some fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Disco Duck said: - introduce a mandatory number of under 23s in the senior match day squad - every club to give away a percentage of previous season's attendance (capped at say 1000) in free tickets to local schools I dont disagree with a lot of what you say in your post but picking up on these two. The idea of compulsory numbers of young players I dont think works. The SPL had that when it started and it was actually counter productive. Managers still wont use those players if they dont rate them. They just sit them on the bench. In fact the requirement to have u21s on the bench just led to the big SPL sides stagnating young players by keeping them to sit on a bench and never play instead of sticking them out on loan. I am not a fan of positive discrimination as a solution to anything. If young players are good enough they will play. If they arent then including them anyway is pointless. As for schools plenty of clubs do that off their own back anyway. Your own club and Thistle amongst some are free for primary school kids. We give piles of free tickets per week to schools and do an £18 season ticket £1 per game). They take up of usage on the free tickets isnt good. Something in the area of 5-10% of tickets issued are used. I dont think formally forcing clubs to give them away if they dont already see an advantage is going to achieve much. The demographic is so different on various clubs its hard to justify a standard dictated policy. You could never force it anyway and it may be a disincentive for season ticket sales at some clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Forgive me if someone's point this out already, I'm not reading five pages inspired by this shite: If all clubs are full time, with the requirement of at least 15 full time players in the first team squad, we should end up with better coaching, tactics, game plans, set pieces etc. On the budgets side, every club within their means and it might end up with full time kids with a sprinkling of part time journeymen but surely it would help the standard of these younger players and also help out our national team and game. Do you know what words mean? Every club within their means while spending much more on wages than many probably do on all their costs right now doesn't work. I'm sure it's a lovely thing to strive for and it's certainly not unreasonable to want the finances and standard in the country to be able to support this sort of thing long-term but your whole post and this requirement in particular is classic word salad with a few meaningless, impossible buzzword-laden phrases thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: I dont disagree with a lot of what you say in your post but picking up on these two. The idea of compulsory numbers of young players I dont think works. The SPL had that when it started and it was actually counter productive. Managers still wont use those players if they dont rate them. They just sit them on the bench. In fact the requirement to have u21s on the bench just led to the big SPL sides stagnating young players by keeping them to sit on a bench and never play instead of sticking them iut on loan. I am not a fan of positive discrimination as a solution to anything. If young players are good enough they will play. If they arent then including them anyway is pointless. As for schools plenty of clubs do that off their own back anyway. Your own club and Thistle amongst some are free for primary school kids. We give piles of free tickets per week to schools and do an £18 season ticket £1 per game). They take up of usage on the free tickets isnt good. Something in the area of 5-10% of tickets issued are used. I dont think formally forcing clubs to give them away if they font already see an advantage is going to achieve much. The demographic is so different on various clubs its hard to justify a standard dictated policy. You could never force it anyway and it may be a disincentive for season ticket sales at some clubs. Accepted on the unintended consequences of the former, but if it increases the value of younger player to bigger clubs, it becomes more remunerative for smaller clubs to have academy systems, and to play younger players to "show them off". On the latter, even a 10% take up is better than nothing, and it would generally bring paying adults along as accompanying. The logic behind Falkirks £0 for primary kids is difficult to fault - get them in the door now and some of them will turn into paying customers - but giving out tickets to a whole class is more likely to get those unaffiliated. Part of the logical conclusion of that is having a "family friendly" (boak) environment. That has two problems - the hardcore support who'd rather it were a pissup/throwback to 70s terracing abuse, and many clubs facilities aren't suitable for the purpose, something that local authorities won't fix. anyone know who funded Scotstoun, and the ice hockey arenas? Was it generally govt funded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nickydevlin Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The price ,4 leagues when we only need 3 ,no drinking at games ,and the fact we have the scum of the old firm are the reasons the games shit .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I take it we have an Ayr Utd supporters tag team on this thread or are they all the same poster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Summer football can kindly do one. Experienced Morton vs Clyde just last summer in the League Cup in dreadful heat. Poor attendance, players unable to cope with the warmth resulting in a drab game. The myth that school kids and famalies would start coming to watch the likes of Raith & Forfar more than they already do because it's nice is a myth. They have more on, more options available to them, it's nonsense. The current July - May schedule is fine, and football is one of the few things to enjoy and look forward to during the dark, dreary winter months. Putting it on duting the summer when folk do actually have other things to do is a non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 hours ago, CityDave said: I've got a really good idea which would include both league and playoff formats in national competition which can also incorporate a regional set up. Why not revamp the League Cup, it would spice up a mainly stale competition and we can see by the attendances whether it can capture the imaginations of the football supporters in this country. well played. I was talking to a fan of another club who was arguing a return to the old approach of 2 big divisions playing each other twice was justified by the "success" of the LC "going retro". Fact is that: * average attendances in the League Cup groups at the start of this season were 2,071 * average attendances in the League Cup knockout R1 & R2 over preceding 6 seasons were 2,145 * average attendances for those 38 clubs in the league last season were 3,196 Some will argue the presence of Rangers home games in those figures, as they climbed the levels, fluctuated them - plus they're likely to qualify for Europe in future so not feature. Stripping them out figures are League Cup groups - 1,284... League Cup knockout R1 & R2 over preceding 6 seasons - 1,510 ... and league - 2,057. So despite novelty of a new format and ideas like bonus points and best runners-up, the League Cup groups delivered poorer crowds than knockout ties and far poorer than league. However, they were better than friendlies. No doubt part of that would be due to the time of year, not just the inherent format - but the difference is clear. EDIT: Of course this also provides a sober warning to those favouring 16-team, 30-game leagues who argue an 8-group, 6-game LC could partly compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 If we have a big reconstruction the season before we should have league reorginisation where we have 1 league and the 42 teams play each other once. Recon it would be good patter, and get seedings to f**k in the cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 What folk need to realise is our TV deal is worth the square root of f**k all without 4 bigot fests a season, as sad as that is. The authorities would never agree to them playing less as it could impact what Sky & BT shell out, even if it's to the derrimemt of that game's overall appeal and everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Wow. How rattled is the OP because Ayr are absolutely shite and going down . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 53 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said: Wow. How rattled is the OP because Ayr are absolutely shite and going down . Is the answer "very", Jim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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