Hame and Hosed Hibs vs Doonhamers

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Other than Dobbies free kick at Dunfermline we havent looked remotely like scoring from a set piece in months

Wrong bit of Fife.

[kirkyblue2]

3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Yeah. Whats worse is that we dont score from them at the other end either. Other than Dobbies free kick at Dunfermline we havent looked remotely like scoring from a set piece in months

This x 2

There are different ways of having a go, though, and not all of them involve playing two strikers. All that achieved today was giving the Hibs midfield the space to pick up the ball and run at the defence or pass the ball around while we chased shadows. We couldnt get the ball off them to "have a go"

It's up to Nayclue to change things but letting in soft goals doesn't help the cause.

[Homer Thompson]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Wrong bit of Fife.

Oh yeah 

I was looking at the games to come

[Guest Flash]

5 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Yeah. Whats worse is that we dont score from them at the other end either. Other than Dobbies free kick at Dunfermline we havent looked remotely like scoring from a set piece in months

 

There are different ways of having a go, though, and not all of them involve playing two strikers. All that achieved today was giving the Hibs midfield the space to pick up the ball and run at the defence or pass the ball around while we chased shadows. We couldnt get the ball off them to "have a go"

Think you mean the non-goal at Raith.

Did Dunfermline not play 4-4-2 at Easter Road, score 2 goals and get a draw?

[Homer Thompson]

Just now, kirkyblue2 said:

It's up to Nayclue to change things but letting in soft goals doesn't help the cause.

Absolutely. He did change things at half time. Thomson seemed to be playing wider but, to be honest, I couldnt really work out what the formation was!

Just now, Flash said:

Think you mean the non-goal at Raith.

Did Dunfermline not play 4-4-2 at Easter Road, score 2 goals and get a draw?

Yes. Hibs also played 4-4-2 in that game though.

[Rjc-1988]

We went 4-4-2 and "had a go".  Far more important than actually analysing the opponents and playing a system that might actually nullify their threats.  Of course when you can't defend set pieces, the formation you are playing becomes largely irrelevant.

Is it really that important to keep over analysing our opponents?

Today we had Danny marking David Gray - Thomas marking Lewis Stevenson. Is it not supposed to be the other way round?

Our so called front two drifting deeper and deeper when Ambrose and McGregor had the ball rather than actually trying to make them feel a bit uncomfortable.

Absolutely no self belief whatsoever - beaten before we started because yet again we become obsessed with the quality of the opposition and forget that we have some decent players who could potentially hurt them. We did exactly the same thing in the 0-1 home defeat a couple of months ago in a borefest.

Having a go isn't all about two up top - it is about being brave enough to push up and press the ball. Back 4 being prepared to take a high line at times rather than retreating deeper and deeper and having our midfield players occasionally finding one of our own players with a pass or two.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, Mr X said:

We gave up the midfield by playing two up front - but at least that will please some fans.

Not conceding from open play to a team with nearly 60% possession but still losing the game 3-0, frankly, sucks. Make no mistakes, we didnt deserve anything from the game, it was one way traffic bar 10 minutes or so after the 3rd goal, but defending set pieces is bread and butter stuff that we simply cant do.

We didn't deserve anything from the game but for what it's worth I thought we started ok. I'm not sure the first goal was a foul for the free kick but after it was given I'm not sure it was preventable. The free kick delivery was perfect, the timing of McGregor's run excellent and I'd need to see it again but there didn't seem to be much anyone could have done about it. Obviously given our clear weakness at set pieces it's easy to point at them but sometimes it's just really well worked. Other than that I thought the first half hour was decent enough. Thomas fired narrowly wide, Dobbie should have scored and would have but for a great save from Marciano and Thomas had another half chance later on when he poked the ball wide from about 10 yards.

After it went 2-0 though we never looked like getting anything from it. We're slighty unfortunate perhaps that Hibs have turned in a couple of their best league performances at home to us but they've thoroughly deserved what they got (indeed the first one might have been about 8-0 rather than 4-0. We probably should  have more than one point off them from the two home games but they are the best team in the league by a mile and it's not results at Easter Road that will determine where we finish.
 

42 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Yeah. Whats worse is that we dont score from them at the other end either. Other than Dobbies free kick at Dunfermline Raith we havent looked remotely like scoring from a set piece in months

Lyle scored from a corner in the home game with Raith at the end of February.

32 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Absolutely. He did change things at half time. Thomson seemed to be playing wider but, to be honest, I couldnt really work out what the formation was!

We switched to a narrower midfield diamond after the double change when Murray and McManus replaced the two wingers. McManus at the base of it and Murray at the point. That remained the formation after Hilson replaced Dykes. Not sure we changed formation at all prior to the subs did we? I didn't think Thomson was wider, he was in the middle with Rankin and we had Carmichael and Thomas wide.

[Homer Thompson]

48 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 

Is it really that important to keep over analysing our opponents?

Today we had Danny marking David Gray - Thomas marking Lewis Stevenson. Is it not supposed to be the other way round?

Our so called front two drifting deeper and deeper when Ambrose and McGregor had the ball rather than actually trying to make them feel a bit uncomfortable.

Absolutely no self belief whatsoever - beaten before we started because yet again we become obsessed with the quality of the opposition and forget that we have some decent players who could potentially hurt them. We did exactly the same thing in the 0-1 home defeat a couple of months ago in a borefest.

Having a go isn't all about two up top - it is about being brave enough to push up and press the ball. Back 4 being prepared to take a high line at times rather than retreating deeper and deeper and having our midfield players occasionally finding one of our own players with a pass or two.

 

You're certainly right in how the game panned out but Im not convinced a lack of belief was the issue, or at least the only issue.

With Dykes and Dobbie up front we just didnt have the players to pressure the Hibs defenders in possession and with the extra man in midfield, one of the three simply dropped deep and picked the ball up. Neither Thomson or Rankin could go with them without leaving one of the other two free behind them. With the amount of possession Hibs had it was inevitable that the two wide players would end up doing more defending than attacking.

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We didn't deserve anything from the game but for what it's worth I thought we started ok. I'm not sure the first goal was a foul for the free kick but after it was given I'm not sure it was preventable. The free kick delivery was perfect, the timing of McGregor's run excellent and I'd need to see it again but there didn't seem to be much anyone could have done about it. Obviously given our clear weakness at set pieces it's easy to point at them but sometimes it's just really well worked. Other than that I thought the first half hour was decent enough. Thomas fired narrowly wide, Dobbie should have scored and would have but for a great save from Marciano and Thomas had another half chance later on when he poked the ball wide from about 10 yards.

After it went 2-0 though we never looked like getting anything from it. We're slighty unfortunate perhaps that Hibs have turned in a couple of their best league performances at home to us but they've thoroughly deserved what they got (indeed the first one might have been about 8-0 rather than 4-0. We probably should  have more than one point off them from the two home games but they are the best team in the league by a mile and it's not results at Easter Road that will determine where we finish.
 

Lyle scored from a corner in the home game with Raith at the end of February.

We switched to a narrower midfield diamond after the double change when Murray and McManus replaced the two wingers. McManus at the base of it and Murray at the point. That remained the formation after Hilson replaced Dykes. Not sure we changed formation at all prior to the subs did we? I didn't think Thomson was wider, he was in the middle with Rankin and we had Carmichael and Thomas wide.

We had chances first half but I wouldnt go as far to say we ever looked "ok". 

Higgins lost McGregor for both goals.

Thomson was definitely wider at the start of the second half. At times, Thomas and Carmichael were almost on top of each other on the left.

[Skyline Drifter]

45 minutes ago, Mr X said:

We had chances first half but I wouldnt go as far to say we ever looked "ok". 

Higgins lost McGregor for both goals.

Hibs are better than us, in fact they are better than anybody at this level which is why they have won the league. They have lacked a little cutting edge at times and drawn too many games otherwise they would have won it at least a month ago. We arent going to go toe to toe with Hibs for extended periods especially at Easter Road. I thought the first half hour barring a very good set piece goal was decent enough. Hibs were largely restricted to long range efforts from open play and Robinson dealt with anything on target. We created one gilt edged chance of our own another another couple of decent openings. Once the second went in though we were seldom a threat.

Like I said I would need to see it again to see if anyone could hace done better on the first. You probably had a better angle than me. I thought it was a terrific delivery though and a great header. From Hibs point of view a very good set piece routine.

[Mustafa_sheet]

How many Queens fans today? Hard to judge from where I was sitting but I would guess 350!

[The Grass Is Greener.]

Farewell Queens, been a few decent games the last 3 years. Great team first year we came down, taking on the big boys head on. 

 

Good luck, m9s.

[Skyline Drifter]

20 minutes ago, Mustafa_sheet said:

How many Queens fans today? Hard to judge from where I was sitting but I would guess 350!

The announcer said "200 plus" near the end when announcing the crowd. Well track down the correct figure at the start of tbe week but it looked circa 250 to me 

[Mustafa_sheet]

Thanks, we left with 5mins to go so would have missed that announcement!

[Fae_the_'briggs]

49 minutes ago, Mustafa_sheet said:

Thanks, we left with 5mins to go so would have missed that announcement!

I wish I'd left with 85 minutes to go, absolutely gutless performance. I said pre-match that if Hibs win then at least I hoped we would make them fight for it, that we weren't up to it, or up for it, was evident early on. That "performance" was reminiscent of games under Fowler, playing not to lose rather than being set up to win and it invariably ends in defeat. It's probably unfair to single out players for criticism on this display and I'm maybe viewing things with a sense of frustration, but Dykes to me doesn't seem to push himself to make an impact on the game, frankly I don't think he is good enough for this level. The usual excuse is, but he's still a young player, fair enough, he should be fit and eager enough to put himself about and at the very least look interested. One not so young player is Rankin, our captain and midfield general, average when we get the chance to attack but a headless chicken who does a lot of running around and not very effective in the defensive side of midfield play. Worth a 2 year contract? Pass on that.

At the end of the day however the buck stops with the Manager and his choice of tactics today put us on a hiding to nothing before we even started. As others have already said, we probably put too much emphasis on worrying what the opposition can do instead of playing to our own strengths.

Finally, congratulations to Hibs on clinching the title, much deserved over the season.

[Homer Thompson]

Hibs are better than us, in fact they are better than anybody at this level which is why they have won the league. They have lacked a little cutting edge at times and drawn too many games otherwise they would have won it at least a month ago. We arent going to go toe to toe with Hibs for extended periods especially at Easter Road. I thought the first half hour barring a very good set piece goal was decent enough. Hibs were largely restricted to long range efforts from open play and Robinson dealt with anything on target. We created one gilt edged chance of our own another another couple of decent openings. Once the second went in though we were seldom a threat.
Like I said I would need to see it again to see if anyone could hace done better on the first. You probably had a better angle than me. I thought it was a terrific delivery though and a great header. From Hibs point of view a very good set piece routine.

They are better than everyone else but, as you say, they've drawn games and should have won the league week ago given the quality of the squad. In others words, they aren't invincible.

I'm not suggesting we go toe to toe with them, quite the opposite in fact. After two good wins Naysmith stuck with the same team and there's a certain justification for that but theres also a good argument for saying we should have set up differently to try and make it difficult for Hibs. They were always going to have more of the ball but we made it far too easy for them. Thinking we could line up how we wanted and still get something from the game is effectively going toe to toe.

I thought the delivery for the first goal was a fairly routine ball to the far post. Mcgregors header was good but he scores from outside the post with a free header, we must be able to defend that better.

[Guest Flash]

11 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Absolutely no self belief whatsoever - beaten before we started because yet again we become obsessed with the quality of the opposition and forget that we have some decent players who could potentially hurt them. 

 

Sounds like we decided to give Hibs a guard of honour a game early. And during the match instead of before it.

[Sloop John B]

4-4-2 is all fine and dandy versus shit like Ayr but against Hibs you have to accept that they are man for man better in just about every matchup so you have to be defensive with the people we have at our disposal. It isn't about 'wanting it more'  or other vague intangible things people like to bring up, it's a question of quality and being able to execute the game plan. I understand why Naysmith would want to stick with a winning team but Dyke's lack of footballing intelligence and quality gets shown up against Ambrose and McGregor and Dobbie isn't quick enough to make an impact so trying to play the usual style just seems foolish as you are already down a man in midfield and once we conceded we didn't have anything to change to once we as we went for broke early on.

Being defensive against Hibs is a common tactic because it has a pretty decent rate of return. They play it sideways, Martin Boyle runs in a straight line and Shinnie/McGinn shoot from 25 yards. Open play Hibs are predictable so being able to defend set pieces becomes critical as the fans tends to get restless if the game is tight. But it's fairly common flaws again, which at corners comes down to execution and being well drilled which we haven't been all season. 

[Rjc-1988]

By way of comparison - I went to Morton's recent visit to Easter Road. It was a poor match that was remembered for the injury time bust up. It ended 0-0.

Morton are a better side than us but not materially better. They went there respecting Hibs but got in their faces. They did not allow their centre backs to stroll forward unchallenged to the half way line and they did not concede cheap possession to players like McGinn in midfield. They made It very tough for Hibs to create attacks and on the night limited Hibs to a few half chances. They had 2/3 decent half chances themselves. They played two up in a 4-4-2. In short it was a pretty even contest despite Hibs having better players.

I fully realise that we could have played well and still lost 3-0 but we should be capable of much more than that.

[QOSQOS]

Wasn't at the game (badly planned Easter) but before the game the general thrust was 'keep playing the way we have been, 4-4-2 etc'.

Now the consensus seems to be we should have changed it, to what? Dobbs up front on his own? 

Sometimes the better team wins....

[Tam]

I am sorry but after the last pathetic display at Easter Road, I was in no mood to view this entirely predictable outing. £22 for one shot on target and 3 goals let in from set pieces. No thanks.

Shame really as the last 25 mins of the league cup game was a season highlight. Arab and Ayr games recently were really enjoyable too but the bottles seem to fall off the wagon on the trip to the capital.