LIVIFOREVER Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, 1320Lichtie said: Don't think Montrose would have had less to spend than teams like Stenhousemuir, Albion Rovers, Queens Park etc no. There shouldn't be much between any team in the bottom leagues, even in the Scottish Premiership, the bottom 6/7 teams will have very similar budgets yet there mixed all over the place.A budget helps but the main reason for teams being successful and not being successful is how well the players fit and how well the manager does. We always have a good budget but we finished 9th last season because of a dud manager. Same with Clyde and Cowden this year. When there's so little difference in what teams budgets are I don't think it's the main factor.The manager and their recruitment of players are by far the biggest factor on how well a team does. Livingston are an exception because I do imagine there'll be a big gulf between what they've spent and what the other 9 teams have spent. BIB, exactly. Haven't a clue what the difference in budgets are in league one, doubt anyone else knows either, we're all guessing. Hopkin did well though and you can't take anything away from him, he said he had a budget to work with and had to get players out to bring some in at the Jan transfer window and that's what he did. Shipped out fringe players and brought in players that would compete for places to push them on so they wouldn't get complacent. Kept everyone happy by rotating the starting eleven too, which is important, man management is just as important as tactics. I slagged him rotten last season when we were relegated so i'll give him the credit he deserves this season for getting us promoted, he did a good job, and not just because he had the biggest budget, whatever it was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, 1320Lichtie said: The EPL comparison is way off by the way. It's completely irrelevant. The gulf in budgets and what clubs can spend there is ridiculous. You're talking about f**k all at this level. You're finding part time players, you need to find ones that fit, money isn't the be all and end all, a lot depends on where players live and what they work as in their main job. Manager recruiting these guys that fit and distributing their budgets appropriately, using loans appropriately etc is all much more of a factor for PT clubs than x team having more to spend than x team. Obviously the more you have the easier that becomes however. Eta: on Montrose Gordon, now they've got a guy who seems to be able to do what I've just said I fancy them to come up under him. Without any change to the clubs budget. A manager with good contacts at this level is worth their weight in gold. It isn't way off, it's an example of the difference a manager makes no matter what budget you are working with, Chelsea will have one of the top budgets in the EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Quoting exceptions doesn't change the rule. I prefer the word example. Rules only work if the players follow them, and for that to happen you need the right man leading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereismillar Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Clucking bell's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC13 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 We won the league this season because we are a far superior club compared to the rest of the league. This much is simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overthehedge1 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, AMC13 said: We won the league this season because we are a far superior club compared to the rest of the league. This much is simple. A far superior club that has been in administration how many time, livingston are not a good club they are a club that every other club should look at and hope their club, no mater how big or small never end up like you have been an embarrassment to Scottish football you won the league cause you had the best team, and strongest squad, when other team were struggling with injurys you where able to replace with quality, no doubt you deserve to win the league you have some real quality in your team but please stop talking s**t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesc Fabregas Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 ^^^ Rattled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Overthehedge1 said: A far superior club that has been in administration how many time, livingston are not a good club they are a club that every other club should look at and hope their club, no mater how big or small never end up like you have been an embarrassment to Scottish football you won the league cause you had the best team, and strongest squad, when other team were struggling with injurys you where able to replace with quality, no doubt you deserve to win the league you have some real quality in your team but please stop talking s**t Dear oh dear OTH 1,you have just been landed hook line and sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Overthehedge1 said: A far superior club that has been in administration how many time, livingston are not a good club they are a club that every other club should look at and hope their club, no mater how big or small never end up like you have been an embarrassment to Scottish football you won the league cause you had the best team, and strongest squad, when other team were struggling with injurys you where able to replace with quality, no doubt you deserve to win the league you have some real quality in your team but please stop talking s**t salty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilly Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 So many clueless weapons posting here it's unreal. My head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Everyone always talks budgets, not big enough , too big, smaller or bigger than ours/yours. We all like to think we have a clue because of a rumour this players on this or that, but does anyone have the foggiest idea of what their clubs playing budget is for the season? And more importantly is the budget really that important? Queens Park seem to be doing not too bad without one that's if them only paying expenses is true. Does budget equal success? Livingston & Dunfermline proved it last year although the year before they were nowhere. Stenny are known to have smallest and are propping up the table. What does everyone think it costs to run their clubs playing budget & is your league position a true reflection of said budget There's been plenty of research done that shows in football budget and success have an almost perfect correlation. I.e. As one rises so does the others. It is THE most important factor in success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 On 10/04/2017 at 08:54, Gordon EF said: Ally McCoist (a shite manager) had a 67% league winning record by throwing around huge amounts of money. And Rangers' budget this season is way lower than Celtic's. The team with the largest budget is going to win at least 3 of the 4 leagues in Sotland this year. And it's something like 3 times Aberdeen's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: And it's something like 3 times Aberdeen's...... Yep, and has been pointed out many, many times and should be perfectly obvious, a bigger budget does not guarentee finishing above a team with a smaller budget. There are lots of other factors which are important. Aberdeen will see finishing 2nd as a good achievement and Rangers will view finishing 3rd as a dissapointment precisely because there's that gap in budget between them. How anyone can use the fact that the current top three placed clubs in Scotland are first, third, second in terms of wage budget instead of first, second, third as an argument against budgets being the most important factor in success is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 If you look at the winners of this league over the last 10 years, Dunfermline a couple of years ago were the exception, every year the club with the biggest budget wins. Even in that year with Dunfermline, who won the league? Morton, who probably had just as big a budget as them. The importance is also exaggerated in this league because often a bigger budget means full-time football which has an added bonus. Obviously a lot of the clubs have very similar budgets and that is where good recruitment and management come in, but for a club like Livingston with their budget this season it would have taken a monumental disaster to not win the league. That's not a criticism however, 'can only beat what's in front of you', and they've generally done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Yep, and has been pointed out many, many times and should be perfectly obvious, a bigger budget does not guarentee finishing above a team with a smaller budget. There are lots of other factors which are important. Aberdeen will see finishing 2nd as a good achievement and Rangers will view finishing 3rd as a dissapointment precisely because there's that gap in budget between them. How anyone can use the fact that the current top three placed clubs in Scotland are first, third, second in terms of wage budget instead of first, second, third as an argument against budgets being the most important factor in success is mind boggling. What about my other post about managers, their recruitment of players, how they players fit the club with their work lives and where they live, and how a manager uses the loans and distributes their budgets? Never said anything about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 If you look at the winners of this league over the last 10 years, Dunfermline a couple of years ago were the exception, every year the club with the biggest budget wins. Even in that year with Dunfermline, who won the league? Morton, who probably had just as big a budget as them. The importance is also exaggerated in this league because often a bigger budget means full-time football which has an added bonus. Obviously a lot of the clubs have very similar budgets and that is where good recruitment and management come in, but for a club like Livingston with their budget this season it would have taken a monumental disaster to not win the league. That's not a criticism however, 'can only beat what's in front of you', and they've generally done that. I agree with this too. My posts have been about PT clubs. If there's a FT club in this league then they'll usually win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 That's a graph of normalised wage budget (x-axis) vs normailsed points (y-axis) for this season's Premier. In terms of correlation where -1 is a perfectly negative correlation, 0 is no correlation and +1 is a perfectly positive correlation, the correlation for budget to points is +0.87. Edit: Graph's not showing, still though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: What about my other post about managers, their recruitment of players, how they players fit the club with their work lives and where they live, and how a manager uses the loans and distributes their budgets? Never said anything about that. Because I've never tried to claim that isn't a very important factor. Where budgets are very similar, this is clearly by far the most important factor in how successful a team is. Saying that budget is the most important factor does not mean that's it's the only factor. Obviously you'd fancy a shite manager with a bigger budget to do worse than a good manager with a more modest budget. It's like someone saying strength is the most important aspect in boxing and then someone else saying 'I disagree, because when two boxers are evenly matched in strength, fitness is the most important factor'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 That's a graph of normalised wage budget (x-axis) vs normailsed points (y-axis) for this season's Premier. In terms of correlation where -1 is a perfectly negative correlation, 0 is no correlation and +1 is a perfectly positive correlation, the correlation for budget to points is +0.87. You got it? Also, I'm talking about PT clubs here. I'd also like to see the results for this seasons Premiership from the 6th placed team to the 12th placed team. According to figures released in November Budgets are 1. Celtic 2. Rangers 3. Aberdeen (134,000 average salary)4. Hearts (86,000 average salary)5. Dundee (61,000 average salary)6. Inverness 7. Motherwell 8. Kilmarnock 9. Ross County10. St Johnstone 11. Partick Thistle 12. Hamilton (42,000 average salary) Left the top 4 in their own group because the margin between them and the rest is very big. So they really should be the top 4, you'd imagine Hearts would be if they'd kept Neilson. So I agree when the margins are as big as that it's probably the most important factor in where a club finishes. However between the other 8 clubs the margins are minimal, like they are between the PT clubs in L1 and L2. Think this clearly shows that with these teams the points I made are the most important factors in where a team finishes... See Tommy Wright, Alan Archibald... on the other side of that Foran and Hartley have done terrible jobs. When the margins are as small as they are here a good manager with contacts is worth their weight in gold. Same goes for our league. See it every single season, clubs punching above their weight and clubs well below where they should be, because of how well a manager has done and how well he's recruited players that fit his team. How well they've used the loans and how well they've distributed their budget across the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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