Tories failing Scotland

[Afro]

12 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

It does piss me off that the SNP and others have the cheek to complain about what the UK government is doing when the people of Scotland told them that we would be better off under UK rule.

That means, Brexit, Tory rule, everything going to the south east etc etc.

I voted Yes but have been put off the SNP since. To me they are getting desperate. Once in a lifetime opportunity they said.

No offence to the many SNP supporters on here but that's how I feel. Tell me why we should vote against the word of the snp and that democratic decision of scotland?

I'm genuinely curious about this train of thought, and you're certainly not alone in your "Yes in 2014, not arsed now" stance. Not saying it's a bad thing, just stating it.

FWIW, I don't really see how another referendum can be argued against. We voted No in 2014, fair enough. However, continued EU membership was one of the cornerstones of Better Together - now that's gone (going), surely it's wise to give people another chance? It's purely anecdotal but it's surprised me the amount of No voters in 2014 who are reconsidering given Brexit. Also, it was in the SNP's manifesto, and people voted for them in record numbers - surely it'd be anti-democratic not to carry out one of their headline pledges?

For me, the next referendum will be a straight up choice between an independent Scotland with a greater international presence, or a Scotland within an insular UK. That said, independence seems almost inevitable given the majority of young people support it; it's not really going away any time soon.

[D.A.F.C]

I still want independence and agree with what you say but just feel that you can't just keep having a vote until you get the result you want. The SNP fans on here and elsewhere are very militant and outspoken but as showed last time there is a silent majority who don't agree with them. Older people with more to lose and who don't take risks or get frightened easily by big changes. If a no vote happens again Scottish politics will be pointless. What happens if Brexit is a massive success? Referrendum for UK? [emoji38]

[JamieThomas]

This will come across as callous, but f**k it I am - I'm struggling to see how someone who will be dead in 6 months has more to lose than someone with 50 years of perma-Tory subjugation to endure, tbh.

[Wee Willie]

11 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

I still want independence and agree with what you say but just feel that you can't just keep having a vote until you get the result you want. The SNP fans on here and elsewhere are very militant and outspoken but as showed last time there is a silent majority who don't agree with them. Older people with more to lose and who don't take risks or get frightened easily by big changes. If a no vote happens again Scottish politics will be pointless. What happens if Brexit is a massive success? Referrendum for UK?

How can ye no.
Surely if the electorate in Scotland continue to support the SNP (and other indy parties) then they can continue to hold referendums.

 

[D.A.F.C]

Did everyone who voted snp vote for them purely for the independence issue or because labour had failed Scotland? It's not as black and white as the snp fan boys think.

[Wee Willie]

6 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Did everyone who voted snp vote for them purely for the independence issue or because labour had failed Scotland? It's not as black and white as the snp fan boys think.

I think it is black & white.
Dae ye want independence then vote SNP
Dae ye want tae be a bit player in the union then vote for a unionist party.

[Shades75]

53 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

I still want independence and agree with what you say but just feel that you can't just keep having a vote until you get the result you want. The SNP fans on here and elsewhere are very militant and outspoken but as showed last time there is a silent majority who don't agree with them. Older people with more to lose and who don't take risks or get frightened easily by big changes. If a no vote happens again Scottish politics will be pointless. What happens if Brexit is a massive success? Referrendum for UK?

We'll have had 2 referendums in around 40 years when the next one comes around.  It's hardly breakneck pace.

Old people have the least to lose, in almost every single imaginable way.

You can't argue against a referendum on independence by asking "what if Brexit is a success?" because it is no counter to "what if Independence is a success?".

[Glen Sannox]

"They" didn't say that it was a "once in a lifetime opportunity".
 
You're an ignoramous if you believe that "they" did.
And here we, fucking, for f**k's sake, kill me now, I hate the world and all that lives in it,......
If you voted yes, and have now been put off from voting yes because "SNP" then you should've drawn a cock and balls on your ballot paper the first time and every time since until you gain a clue about what you are doing.  It's probably a good idea that you let your mum dress yourself in the morning too....
Now there's plenty of threads for you to dress up in an "SNP bad" cloak and post at will.
This one's for the party that wants rape victims to fill in a form explaining how they were raped, why they're entitled to the benefit for the child that emerged as a result of that rape....and instructs them to get a public servant who will counter sign that claim of rape and vouch for their right to that benefit...
 
 
 
 
....Which the SNP have said will not be implemented in Scotland.

Trying way too hard.

[Fide]

8 hours ago, Glen Sannox said:

 

 

Trying way too hard.

 

 

Mintering way too mintery.

[Fide]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Its not callous at all. Its just brainless and virtually nobody above the age of 25 gives a shit what you or anyone else thinks about it.

People other than youngsters get a vote.

Accept it and move on. Life is less painful that way.

Oh and "endure"? Most people are doing just fine regardless of what party is in power.

I trust you've never heard of DWP assessments?

Benefit sanctions?

Bereavement benefit being slashed?

The rape clause?

Food banks?

f**k off Oaksoft.

[D.A.F.C]

Here's something that I've experienced and a reason why I sort of agree with Oaksoft in a way.

Growing up Scotland hated the Tories and Labour were seen as their opposite and genuinely supported the working class. Manufacturing jobs were lost around my area purely down to the Tories trying to win votes in England.

Labour were pretty much never going to win the GE after Smith died and they were then morphed into the Tory party with a smiley face. They continued to destroy the unions and opted out of European working directives and rights such as working hours and being able to close down workplaces overnight. I experienced three workplaces close down and two lost work to the EU. I feel that joining the EU isn't the nirvana that the SNP promise. I'm thinking that China and India will emerge or have already emerged as much larger and more powerful trading partners. I don't feel comfortable about closing the borders to refugees who need help and there has been some investment from the EU but as Oaksoft said it doesn't really matter who is in charge. The richer keep getting richer, Scotland keeps getting fucked over and the world becomes more unstable due to Western foreign policy.

I really don't see how joining the EU will make such a difference.

[Wee Willie]

18 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Here's something that I've experienced and a reason why I sort of agree with Oaksoft in a way.

Growing up Scotland hated the Tories and Labour were seen as their opposite and genuinely supported the working class. Manufacturing jobs were lost around my area purely down to the Tories trying to win votes in England.

Labour were pretty much never going to win the GE after Smith died and they were then morphed into the Tory party with a smiley face. They continued to destroy the unions and opted out of European working directives and rights such as working hours and being able to close down workplaces overnight. I experienced three workplaces close down and two lost work to the EU. I feel that joining the EU isn't the nirvana that the SNP promise. I'm thinking that China and India will emerge or have already emerged as much larger and more powerful trading partners. I don't feel comfortable about closing the borders to refugees who need help and there has been some investment from the EU but as Oaksoft said it doesn't really matter who is in charge. The richer keep getting richer, Scotland keeps getting fucked over and the world becomes more unstable due to Western foreign policy.

I really don't see how joining the EU will make such a difference.

Fair do's if that's your opinion.
But you've omitted the fact that perhaps Scotland widnae be so fucked if we were independent.
Just now we rely on politicians outwith Scotland to decide our place in the world.
Decide who our friends are and who our enemies are.
Surely if we, as Scots, made all the decisions regarding Scotland then any failures would be ours and no anybody else's.

I really don't see how joining the EU will make such a difference.
Surely that's a different story.

 

[WaffenThinMint]

18 hours ago, JamieThomas said:

This will come across as callous, but f**k it I am - I'm struggling to see how someone who will be dead in 6 months has more to lose than someone with 50 years of perma-Tory subjugation to endure, tbh.

Well 50 years of Toryism to endure is a stiff one, but dead in 6 months you really can't get any more stiffed after that.

[Wee Willie]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Scotland is hardly getting "fucked over".

This sort of overly emotional claptrap isnt helpful.

You're saying the elected representatives of Scotland in Westminster arenae getting f**ked over.
The vast majority of them dinnae want Trident in Scotland yet we're no getting f**ked over.
The vast majority of them dinnae want tae fly halfway round the world tae bomb another country yet the UK still did it (and we're no getting f**ked over).
These warmongering c**ts in Westminster are licking their lips that Donald is gonna lead them on a Crusade.

The Tories have one Scottish MP and he is the Secretary of State for Scotland and that disnae reek of colonialism.

Oaksoft your post makes me think of the phrase 'I'm all right Jack, f**k the rest of ye'
Nae compassion for c**ts worse off than yourself.
You clearly dinnae subscribe tae this

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

 

 

[D.A.F.C]

1 hour ago, Wee Willie said:

Fair do's if that's your opinion.
But you've omitted the fact that perhaps Scotland widnae be so fucked if we were independent.
Just now we rely on politicians outwith Scotland to decide our place in the world.
Decide who our friends are and who our enemies are.
Surely if we, as Scots, made all the decisions regarding Scotland then any failures would be ours and no anybody else's.

I really don't see how joining the EU will make such a difference.
Surely that's a different story.

 

That's the point I'm making though, it doesn't seem to matter who is in charge, Labour was seen as some sort of saviour of Scotland. Look how that turned out. Do you really think Independence is going to fix everything? If anything we will have less bargaining power and be less of a global player. Just my opinion. Would like to know exactly what Indy will fix and how.

Oil and the financial sector were seen by the snp as glorious examples of Scotlands future by the snp.....

[Antlion]

11 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

That's the point I'm making though, it doesn't seem to matter who is in charge, Labour was seen as some sort of saviour of Scotland. Look how that turned out. Do you really think Independence is going to fix everything? If anything we will have less bargaining power and be less of a global player. Just my opinion. Would like to know exactly what Indy will fix and how.

Oil and the financial sector were seen by the snp as glorious examples of Scotlands future by the snp.....

No one said independence would "fix everything". That's a straw man. As for being "less of a global player", you can't be much less of a global player than having no independent place in any global organisation. Perhaps you could explain example how being a region of a state makes one a "global player"? How are Scotland, Cornwall and Yorkshire better "global players" than Ireland, or Finland, or Denmark? How do they have more "bargaining power" when they can't bargain?

[Baxter Parp]

That's the point I'm making though, it doesn't seem to matter who is in charge, Labour was seen as some sort of saviour of Scotland. Look how that turned out. Do you really think Independence is going to fix everything? If anything we will have less bargaining power and be less of a global player. Just my opinion. Would like to know exactly what Indy will fix and how.
Oil and the financial sector were seen by the snp as glorious examples of Scotlands future by the snp.....

Here's something that I've experienced and a reason why I sort of agree with Oaksoft in a way.
Growing up Scotland hated the Tories and Labour were seen as their opposite and genuinely supported the working class. Manufacturing jobs were lost around my area purely down to the Tories trying to win votes in England.
Labour were pretty much never going to win the GE after Smith died and they were then morphed into the Tory party with a smiley face. They continued to destroy the unions and opted out of European working directives and rights such as working hours and being able to close down workplaces overnight. I experienced three workplaces close down and two lost work to the EU. I feel that joining the EU isn't the nirvana that the SNP promise. I'm thinking that China and India will emerge or have already emerged as much larger and more powerful trading partners. I don't feel comfortable about closing the borders to refugees who need help and there has been some investment from the EU but as Oaksoft said it doesn't really matter who is in charge. The richer keep getting richer, Scotland keeps getting fucked over and the world becomes more unstable due to Western foreign policy.
I really don't see how joining the EU will make such a difference.

Scotland has zero global influence now so as an independent nation it will at least have some. Out of the EU, the Tories will scrap the employment regulations and f**k over working people even harder than they do now. Human rights will go straight out the window. Labour is in such disarray that they can do nothing useful. We have to get out of this.

[JamieThomas]

8 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Its not callous at all. Its just brainless and virtually nobody above the age of 25 gives a shit what you or anyone else thinks about it.

People other than youngsters get a vote.

Accept it and move on. Life is less painful that way.

Oh and "endure"? Most people are doing just fine regardless of what party is in power.

Here's what I did in my post: Expressed doubt on the opinion that old people have more to lose than young people.

Here's what I didn't do in my post: Express the belief that old people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Learn not to jump in with two feet and make a **** of yourself. Reading your tedious sanctimony is less painful that way.

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

That's the point I'm making though, it doesn't seem to matter who is in charge, Labour was seen as some sort of saviour of Scotland. Look how that turned out. Do you really think Independence is going to fix everything? If anything we will have less bargaining power and be less of a global player. Just my opinion. Would like to know exactly what Indy will fix and how.

Oil and the financial sector were seen by the snp as glorious examples of Scotlands future by the snp.....

FFS Nobody ever said that independence is a magic wand.

If anything we will have less bargaining power and be less of a global player.
How can ye get any less than what we have just now.
What influence does Scotland have outwith Scotland?
58 out of 59 (I think) Scots MPs voted NOT to bomb Syria back in 2014.
The UK went ahead and bombed it.
Historical records will show that the UK overwhelmingly voted to do that deed.
There will be f**k all said about Scotlands vote.

Why dae ye want Scotland tae be a global player?
A country of 5m+ - get real.

 

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

No one said independence would "fix everything". That's a straw man. As for being "less of a global player", you can't be much less of a global player than having no independent place in any global organisation. Perhaps you could explain example how being a region of a state makes one a "global player"? How are Scotland, Cornwall and Yorkshire better "global players" than Ireland, or Finland, or Denmark? How do they have more "bargaining power" when they can't bargain?

Decent post except...

[NotThePars]

Why does DAFC bemoan western foreign policy then argue against Scottish independence on the basis of our global influence. Surely it should decline? Us leaving the U.K. would deal it another major body blow and force it to reign in its imperialistic pretensions.