Burnie_man Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Doubt that will happen. The LL is a success so far. It's more likely than you think. There's a reason why most licenced clubs in the SoSL don't want promotion.If it's a success, that shouldn't be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 LL2 isn't going to and shouldn't happen 30+ sides playing lowland wide football makes no sense.Should sufficient clubs get licensed(very likely within 5 years I'd say) we will see an east west split, tho to start with that will probably be further east initially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Burnie_man said: It's more likely than you think. There's a reason why most licenced clubs in the SoSL don't want promotion. If it's a success, that shouldn't be happening. It's a success on level five of the pyramid, severely lacking on level six. With the EOS top teams not licensed, the SOS teams too small to want to play football on a higher level. If the junior pyramid came in at level six, that would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 It's a success on level five of the pyramid, severely lacking on level six. With the EOS top teams not licensed, the SOS teams too small to want to play football on a higher level. If the junior pyramid came in at level six, that would be perfect. If there are clubs withdrawing (Threave) and others not wanting promotion, then how can it be a success? It's flawed.A split to East and West is the sensible next step in striving to have a true pyramid. Junior clubs would become involved, with Talbot probably being at the forefront, and make the LL stronger overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 26 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: If there are clubs withdrawing (Threave) and others not wanting promotion, then how can it be a success? It's flawed. A split to East and West is the sensible next step in striving to have a true pyramid. Junior clubs would become involved, with Talbot probably being at the forefront, and make the LL stronger overall. Threave took only ten points last season, and finished last two seasons in a row. It was good that they withdrew. Relegation/promotion is a must in football. The league is only growing stronger. Now Preston are going down. Ideally they would be replaced by LTHV. Still with potentially getting in a few strong juniors in the next few years, teams will find their natural place, and the level at the bottom of the LL will be significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, lowenan said: Threave took only ten points last season, and finished last two seasons in a row. It was good that they withdrew. Relegation/promotion is a must in football. The league is only growing stronger. Now Preston are going down. Ideally they would be replaced by LHTV. Still with potentially getting in a few strong juniors in the next few years, teams will find their natural place, and the level at the bottom of the LL will be significantly better. Clubs withdrawing from the league is a good thing? Interesting.The league isn't growing stronger, you're about to get the absurdity that is Edusport, which highlights that without strong feeder leagues with clubs who want to play in it, it will eventually stagnate. Split it, get Junior clubs into both, and plug the remaining Junior clubs below it as feeders (and merge EoS and SoS into the Junior structure), then you'll have a strong LL pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Clubs withdrawing from the league is a good thing? Interesting.The league isn't growing stronger, you're about to get the absurdity that is Edusport, which highlights that without strong feeder leagues with clubs who want to play in it, it will eventually stagnate. Split it, get Junior clubs into both, and plug the remaining Junior clubs below it as feeders (and merge EoS and SoS into the Junior structure), then you'll have a strong LL pyramid. Edusport is a strange one. But at least they joined the pyramid, got licensed, and played their way in. Can't fault them for that. Time will tell if they are good enough to survive next season. Very much doubt the LL will be split at level five anytime soon. But there should be dialogue with the west juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundesliga Boy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Burnie_man said: The first change that needs to happen is splitting the LL into East and West. Until that happens, we won't have a pyramid as West Junior clubs will have little interest in playing in a league which is East heavy. Absolutely, and I'd be astonished if that didn't happen. Probably not in time for next season but for the following season I would think so. As for the other posters comments re being weighted towards East teams, whilst I take your point I think there will soon be enough to split the league. Teams such as Cowdenbeath for example if they come down, East Stirlingshire, Dalbeattie, Cumbernauld, BSC, Gretna, Edusport - there's 7 to begin with. You might be able to tempt a couple of the top SOS teams if they know there will be other SOS teams in the league. Glasgow Uni would almost certainly want in. And don't shoot the messenger (and lets not deflect off this topic with this) but the Old Firm want their Colts teams in it too. I suspect there would also be 3 or 4 West junior clubs who might be interested a further year down the line - Clydebank for example who will have a snazzy revamped ground by then and who were previously Senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Burnie_man said: The demographic shows that we need a split. The LL area has 3 or 4 times the clubs and population that the HL covers. A LL2 does nothing to solve the issue of a tier 5 league in the West, which is needed if we're to have a fully functioning pyramid involving all semi pro clubs. I certainly agree that there should be a split in the Lowland League. Unfortunately it's all down to the clubs willing to participate in it, rather than what percentage of the population gets represented. Next year will be the 5th season of the Lowland League. In that time no team from the Juniors has joined and going by the discussion in the Junior section both the East & West regions may have restructured by the end of it. As organisations (West, East & SJFA as a whole) there doesn't seem to be any desire to push through some sort of integration into the pyramid. LL2 becomes the best compromise to continue progressing the idea of the pyramid. It would maybe help attract the Junior clubs that have been mentioned in wanting to join by offering more than one promotion spot to LL1 and avoid the stigma of joining SoS/EoS. Linlithgow and Girvan reject joining which leads to their Club Licences being revoked. Clubs left behind in the remnants of the SoS/EoS because they don't want to join the pyramid can either carry on in some sort of North Caledonian league senior limbo or move on to pastures new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Burnie_man said: The demographic shows that we need a split. The LL area has 3 or 4 times the clubs and population that the HL covers. Naw really. The Highland League may have a smaller population but the towns are more remote. There's the odd exception but folk aren't travelling from Wick or Fort William or the like to get to other team's games. Glasgow might have a higher popuation than everything north of the Tay combined but what sort of crowds are any new teams gonna get there competing with the current senior and junior teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundesliga Boy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, AsimButtHitsASix said: Naw really. The Highland League may have a smaller population but the towns are more remote. There's the odd exception but folk aren't travelling from Wick or Fort William or the like to get to other team's games. Glasgow might have a higher popuation than everything north of the Tay combined but what sort of crowds are any new teams gonna get there competing with the current senior and junior teams? That doesn't take into account travel however. Demographicwise, there aren't exactly a number of big roads linking the West of Scotland with the East the further South you go in Scotland. Glasgow to Edinburgh is fine but the further South you go, travelling from East to West or visa versa is problamatic. A Lowland League East/West split is the obvious sensible solution and I suspect this will happen far sooner than most believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 A West/East split is the logical solution, but there's the catch-22 situation of there not being enough licenced teams in the West at the moment. Until there's some clarification on what "commitment to the Pyramid" actually means, I don't think we'll be seeing any more licenced West teams anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The idea that they'll add another split in the 5th tier is ridiculous. It could happen, in time, but only if there's movement from the juniors first. The 6th tier is pretty much a East/West split as it stands. If a few junior sides take a leap of faith and improve the 6th tier then, later, I can see hte 5th tier being expanded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: The idea that they'll add another split in the 5th tier is ridiculous. It could happen, in time, but only if there's movement from the juniors first. The 6th tier is pretty much a East/West split as it stands. If a few junior sides take a leap of faith and improve the 6th tier then, later, I can see hte 5th tier being expanded It's not ridiculous at all, and with the very real possibility that Colt sides will be shoe horned into LL level, then an West/East split is almost inevitable. A season or two's grace on Licencing and its almost guaranteed that Junior clubs would become involved. The Juniors already are at the 6th tier (some will say 5th), albeit outside the Pyramid. Don't hold your breath on any clubs leaving to join the EoS or SoS, despite recent statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 On 07/04/2017 at 20:06, Bundesliga Boy said: Bo'ness have now issued a statement re licensing and potential league change. Very much echoes Kelty's stance. My mobe won't allow me to copy and paste link but it's on their official site. Kelty and Bo'Ness have made positive statements about joining the Pyramid. It is rumoured that a 3rd Junior club is also interested. Does anyone knpow who this is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 23/04/2017 at 22:53, FairWeatherFan said: I certainly agree that there should be a split in the Lowland League. Unfortunately it's all down to the clubs willing to participate in it, rather than what percentage of the population gets represented. Next year will be the 5th season of the Lowland League. In that time no team from the Juniors has joined and going by the discussion in the Junior section both the East & West regions may have restructured by the end of it. As organisations (West, East & SJFA as a whole) there doesn't seem to be any desire to push through some sort of integration into the pyramid. LL2 becomes the best compromise to continue progressing the idea of the pyramid. It would maybe help attract the Junior clubs that have been mentioned in wanting to join by offering more than one promotion spot to LL1 and avoid the stigma of joining SoS/EoS. Linlithgow and Girvan reject joining which leads to their Club Licences being revoked. Clubs left behind in the remnants of the SoS/EoS because they don't want to join the pyramid can either carry on in some sort of North Caledonian league senior limbo or move on to pastures new. What's this nonsense about Linlithgow & Girvan having their licences revoked ? Like Banks O'Dee they have joint SFA and SJFA membership which pre-dates the "must commit to the Pyramid" clause ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Robert James said: What's this nonsense about Linlithgow & Girvan having their licences revoked ? Like Banks O'Dee they have joint SFA and SJFA membership which pre-dates the "must commit to the Pyramid" clause ! It was a hypothetical scenario where a Lowland League Two was created instead of a Lowland West/East split as there hasn't been many West of Scotland based clubs showing an interest. I included the bit about Linlithgow & Girvan losing their licences because I could see reasons why they wouldn't want to join. Linlithgow being a top Junior side and Girvan left the SoS for some reason I doubt LL2 would rectify. While both clubs gained their licences/memberships before the introduction of the Pyramid clause, that doesn't mean they'll have them forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynie1874 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Harder for clubs to sign players next season without breaking rules anyway? Due to inland revenue wanting players on hourly wages if signed professionally. A signing fee hourly wage and expenses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theProdigy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Girvan left the SoS for some reason I doubt LL2 would rectify. Girvan left to the amount of travelling involved! It's a quite a bit of travelling for players in Stranraer in this league, but Girvan is another half hour on top so their closest away game would be about an hours drive (Newton Stewart)... It was a logical choice for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 1 hour ago, theProdigy said: Girvan left to the amount of travelling involved! It's a quite a bit of travelling for players in Stranraer in this league, but Girvan is another half hour on top so their closest away game would be about an hours drive (Newton Stewart)... It was a logical choice for them Figured as much. Which is why I figured they wouldn't want to be in a league that's predominantly filled with what's left of the SoS/EoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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