A STATEMENT FROM THE BEECHWOOD REGENERATION COMMITTEE

[Marshmallo]

Last year I found myself explaining to some English fans I met abroad about the LL as they were bamboozled where it suddenly came from and who were the teams in it. I found myself explaining that some were made up to fill in the spaces.

[Bundesliga Boy]

2 hours ago, The Mantis said:

At Whitehill we've been having talks with a company about installing 3G. I asked the guy what's all this 3G, 4G, 5G even (like QoS).

 

Is this a realistic goal (pun not intended) for this summer or a few years down the line if you can get grants/funding etc?  Good luck either way as much needed over there.

 

Back on topic and I strongly suspect that a Lowland East and West league is imminent.  In time for next season would be nice.

What hasn't been mentioned thus far is one of the main reasons that it's being fast tracked.  Whilst most may be against the idea, Rangers and Celtic intend to have Colts teams within the Senior game.  I think they have already been knocked back for the SPFL where they were hopeful off adding two more clubs into League 2.

As the Lowland League is at its full capacity, the obvious solution was to divide the Lowland into East and West......which is what the vast majority of reasonably minded football fans want to see anyway, and as a by-product of that (an unfortunate one for many) it opens the door for the Colt sides. 

Even if the LL loses EK, all four of Cumbernauld, BSC, Dalbeattie and Gretna would be placed in Lowland West.  You could potentially have 2 or 3 from the SOS - Edusport a certainty, hopefully Wigtown & Bladnoch and St Cuthbert's too.  Highly unlikely for Threave and Newton Stewart at this time I would think. Potentially that's 7 teams.  Presumably Glasgow Uni would jump at the chance, as would Rangers and Celtic Colts.  Up to 10. 

You can then only hope that 6 West Junior clubs would be brave enough to make the change to make it a 16 team league.  Talbot would be a great place to start and be a real boost for the LL in general.  Girvan would join if they wished to keep their license.  Perhaps Clydebank now that Holm Park is being transformed into a Community stadium.

Now what originally seemed like an impossible dream even a year ago (formation of a Lowland West) appears to be gathering momentum at a very important time. 

[LongTimeLurker]

15 minutes ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

....Highly unlikely for Threave and Newton Stewart at this time I would think...

Would they have any choice if they wanted to keep their license under that scenario (if that's your argument for Girvan needing to be there) and why just the Old Firm on colt teams when the other full-time clubs are all running youth teams as well?

[stanley]

Newton Stewart don't even have a licence yet anyway, do they?

[Bundesliga Boy]

56 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Would they have any choice if they wanted to keep their license under that scenario (if that's your argument for Girvan needing to be there) and why just the Old Firm on colt teams when the other full-time clubs are all running youth teams as well?

Firstly NS don't have a license yet. But when they do, they and Threave wouldn't have to take the final spots in LLW as long as there wee other viable candidates as they would still be in a league that feeds into the pyramid.

As things stand the juniors doesn't, therefore when licenses are reviewed next it would seem only right that Linlithgows and Girvans is revoked if they don't join the LL East and West based on Auchinleck not being allowed a license in the first place for the same reason. 

[The Mantis]

1 hour ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

Is this a realistic goal (pun not intended) for this summer or a few years down the line if you can get grants/funding etc?  Good luck either way as much needed over there.

I think some were hoping it could happen this summer. My opinion is that it's very unlikely.

[Bundesliga Boy]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Would they have any choice if they wanted to keep their license under that scenario (if that's your argument for Girvan needing to be there) and why just the Old Firm on colt teams when the other full-time clubs are all running youth teams as well?

Apologies, to answer other part of question, only 3 other clubs - Hearts, Hibs, and Aberdeen, as per previously reported, were deemed to be financially viable to have a Colts team, but due to other costs/projects etc they all indicated now wasn't the time.  

[LongTimeLurker]

That was for teams operating at SPFL rather than LL West level and more than two would have been difficult to do in terms of reformatting the league structure. How difficult could it really be for clubs with 3G playing surfaces like Falkirk, Hamilton Accies and Kilmarnock to also use their grounds for a U20 orientated team playing most of their away games within ninety minute's driving time rather than the oft mentioned rainy Tuesday night in Elgin? Not very I would have thought. Hibs ran an EoS team a few seasons back and the logistics of having an LL East team would be similar to that given they could easily groundshare with a club like Preston Athletic. Although it would probably be good for player development to have colt teams playing against the senior teams of smaller clubs, I seriously doubt this LL East and West thing is happening, because of the level of opposition the issue seems to stir up amongst the supporters of smaller senior clubs. Rightly or wrongly, those clubs still have a lot of clout at an SFA AGM.

[MDM]

15 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Btw if you have 3G you can have rugby clubs training on it but not playing as it's too hard. If you have water based its very hard as you don't use pellets, you water the pitch so the ball will run instead of bouncing. 

That will rule out summer football then - hosepipe bans and all that 

 

[Bundesliga Boy]

To be fair, Hibs played out of their training ground, not another licensed ground as would now be the requirement, so they incurred no additional costs.

Costs would still be similar regardless whether it was spfl or LLW. Clubs like Aberdeen, Hibs, and Hearts would presumably have to groundshare with a smaller club which can be quite costly. This is one of the biggest costs of having a Colt side and is an issue regardless of league. May seem a small cost and other far smaller clubs do it, but every penny a prisoner at the mo. 

Personally I would have thought the best option for vast majority of spl clubs would be to put the best 3 or 4 youngsters they have out on loan at a smaller spfl club, as is currently happening. 

I can understand the old firm having Colt clubs and maybe working their way up to League 2 or 1 as, theoretically at least, they stockpile the best youngsters at all positions so they should be able to cope far better than other spl clubs. 

[Skyline Drifter]

20 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Sounds like great idea but I'm sure the SJFA would put the kybosh on anything like that.

At Whitehill we've been having talks with a company about installing 3G. I asked the guy what's all this 3G, 4G, 5G even (like QoS).

He says there's only 3G pitches (football) and water-based pitches (hockey) and all the rest is just made up shite. I'm sure some guys on here will know more about it.

Btw if you have 3G you can have rugby clubs training on it but not playing as it's too hard. If you have water based its very hard as you don't use pellets, you water the pitch so the ball will run instead of bouncing. 

I don't know where all this peddling of the "5G" line came from with respect to us. Your guy is correct (of course) there is only 3G in terms of top line grades but there are different technical developments within that. Our pitch was the 5th generation of 3G pitches and someone ended up claiming that it was 5G and it stuck. I imagine there are probably 6th generation ones around now. As it was explained to me it's basically just like your Windows software on the computer. The latest Operating system is Windows 10 and all new computers will have that but that doesn't stop Microsoft issuing product updates etc under the Windows 10.1, 10.2, etc banner. Same thing. Our pitch is effectively version 3G.5

There absolutely ARE 3G rugby pitches being played on around the country up to and including professional rugby (there's a story on the BBC website today about the burn injuries caused to players who played on one that hadn't been watered enough pre-match). As I understand it the difference is the blades of grass are a little longer and therefore the rubber crumb used is more which makes them slightly less hard. Most of the community pitches around the country, certainly those in the South West, are in fact rugby pitches so that they can be used for both sports, but because the "grass" is a bit longer they aren't as good for football. Clearly ours is a dedicated football pitch, not a rugby one. The 3G at Greystone Rovers in Dumfries however is a rugby pitch.

[The Mantis]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I don't know where all this peddling of the "5G" line came from with respect to us. Your guy is correct (of course) there is only 3G in terms of top line grades but there are different technical developments within that. Our pitch was the 5th generation of 3G pitches and someone ended up claiming that it was 5G and it stuck. I imagine there are probably 6th generation ones around now. As it was explained to me it's basically just like your Windows software on the computer. The latest Operating system is Windows 10 and all new computers will have that but that doesn't stop Microsoft issuing product updates etc under the Windows 10.1, 10.2, etc banner. Same thing. Our pitch is effectively version 3G.5

There absolutely ARE 3G rugby pitches being played on around the country up to and including professional rugby (there's a story on the BBC website today about the burn injuries caused to players who played on one that hadn't been watered enough pre-match). As I understand it the difference is the blades of grass are a little longer and therefore the rubber crumb used is more which makes them slightly less hard. Most of the community pitches around the country, certainly those in the South West, are in fact rugby pitches so that they can be used for both sports, but because the "grass" is a bit longer they aren't as good for football. Clearly ours is a dedicated football pitch, not a rugby one. The 3G at Greystone Rovers in Dumfries however is a rugby pitch.

Cheers for that. We were talking to NottsSport and for whatever reason their website doesn't mention rugby at all.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, The Mantis said:

Cheers for that. We were talking to NottsSport and for whatever reason their website doesn't mention rugby at all.

http://shockwave.nottssport.com/

That page talks about world class rugby union and football pitches.

Ours was ACT Global but they do rugby pitches too per this link:

http://www.actglobal.com/world-rugby-turf.php

[parsforlife]

To be fair, Hibs played out of their training ground, not another licensed ground as would now be the requirement, so they incurred no additional costs.
Costs would still be similar regardless whether it was spfl or LLW. Clubs like Aberdeen, Hibs, and Hearts would presumably have to groundshare with a smaller club which can be quite costly. This is one of the biggest costs of having a Colt side and is an issue regardless of league. May seem a small cost and other far smaller clubs do it, but every penny a prisoner at the mo. 
Personally I would have thought the best option for vast majority of spl clubs would be to put the best 3 or 4 youngsters they have out on loan at a smaller spfl club, as is currently happening. 
. 

Many development sides already are playing out of licenced grounds(hibs at Spartans, hearts at steny, Aberdeen just played us a fortmartine's ground ...)in a national league. The idea they couldn't do this in regional leagues is silly.

Regardless colt sides a silly and should be objected every time they are suggested.

[HTG]

21 hours ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

Firstly NS don't have a license yet. But when they do, they and Threave wouldn't have to take the final spots in LLW as long as there wee other viable candidates as they would still be in a league that feeds into the pyramid.

As things stand the juniors doesn't, therefore when licenses are reviewed next it would seem only right that Linlithgows and Girvans is revoked if they don't join the LL East and West based on Auchinleck not being allowed a license in the first place for the same reason. 

I'd be slightly miffed at having a licence revoked for not fitting a structure whilst at the same time that structure is able to lock teams out when it suits them. If we're going the extra mile in the south then there better be some movement in the north where the Highland League has moved not a jot from its "nothing to see here" attitude. I realise that's a bit of a non sequitur but nevertheless all the chat about forcing Kelty, Talbot and others whilst ignoring the protectionism in the north would be a scandal. 

[JPGR]

22 minutes ago, HTG said:

I'd be slightly miffed at having a licence revoked for not fitting a structure whilst at the same time that structure is able to lock teams out when it suits them. If we're going the extra mile in the south then there better be some movement in the north where the Highland League has moved not a jot from its "nothing to see here" attitude. I realise that's a bit of a non sequitur but nevertheless all the chat about forcing Kelty, Talbot and others whilst ignoring the protectionism in the north would be a scandal. 

All those who are junior and have a license should be made to go or have it revoked. Linlithgow etc supping at the big table with monies gained from games they don't merit with their pathetic on field displays.

[HTG]

20 minutes ago, JPGR said:

All those who are junior and have a license should be made to go or have it revoked. Linlithgow etc supping at the big table with monies gained from games they don't merit with their pathetic on field displays.

Banks o Dee into the EoS league then?  Otherwise just whip the licence off them?  Bear in mind Linlithgow met the licence criteria in place when their application was assessed. That the goals moved (very deliberately) is not really Linlithgows issue. Wouldn't bother me to be honest. I'd bin the juniors in a heartbeat. 

[LongTimeLurker]

6 hours ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

....Clubs like Aberdeen, Hibs, and Hearts would presumably have to groundshare with a smaller club which can be quite costly...

Clubs like that have played their youth team and women's league games in junior and nonleague senior grounds in the past, because it really isn't all that expensive and the hosting clubs welcome the extra income. For example, Hibs have used Newtongrange Star's ground for U-20 games and their women's team uses Broxburn Athletic's ground. Both of those grounds can't be too far off in being good enough in licensing terms. Also worth noting that all of the top tier had their U-20 teams entered into the Challenge Cup this season and several of them (and not just the Old Firm) were able to beat lower division SPFL, HL and LL clubs in the early rounds. The Old Firm definitely don't appear to be dominating the Development League this season:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_SPFL_Development_League

[Bundesliga Boy]

3 hours ago, HTG said:

I'd be slightly miffed at having a licence revoked for not fitting a structure whilst at the same time that structure is able to lock teams out when it suits them. If we're going the extra mile in the south then there better be some movement in the north where the Highland League has moved not a jot from its "nothing to see here" attitude. I realise that's a bit of a non sequitur but nevertheless all the chat about forcing Kelty, Talbot and others whilst ignoring the protectionism in the north would be a scandal. 

Couldn't agree more re the north. North juniors should be forced to act as a feeder league. Once this is in place, the first season should two teams (or 3 if the North champions are licensed) in order that it then mirrors its 16 team Lowland counterparts.

As for Colt sides re other posters, I personally have little desire to see the lower leagues littered with Colt sides anyway. And the reason the old firm aren't dominating at the mo are that all their better youngsters are playing further up the leagues because they don't have a Colt side at present.

[Talbot Bing]

Couldn't agree more re the north. North juniors should be forced to act as a feeder league. Once this is in place, the first season should two teams (or 3 if the North champions are licensed) in order that it then mirrors its 16 team Lowland counterparts.
As for Colt sides re other posters, I personally have little desire to see the lower leagues littered with Colt sides anyway. And the reason the old firm aren't dominating at the mo are that all their better youngsters are playing further up the leagues because they don't have a Colt side at present.

Forced? Calm down ya clown [emoji23]