newcastle broon Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, Quantum Leap said: Aye your deluded. Scottish football is in a terrible state and one day I hope progress is made but at the moment I hold the opinion that it would be a disastrous move to joint the pyramid. Certainly not deluded I've stated that non league fitba in Scotland should be all in one... As I said and I'm sure others have friends around Britain that the LL is recognised unlike teams like yourselves which are difficult to explain and that's not directed at Talbot by the way,just the sjfa in general or can you help my deludedness in explaining please? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Well I guess what would need to happen would be the existing LL clubs deemed to be West based would be your starter in a new LL West, then add current Junior clubs to make it up to 16. In the East, the gap created by those West clubs leaving the current LL would be vacancies for Junior clubs in the East to fill. The current LL didn't start with all clubs being licenced, it took some a couple of seasons to get one. That same pragmatic approach would be required. Having teams in one level of a pyramid system who are not eligible for promotion to the next higher level should not be a bar. It happens all over the English pyramid and elsewhere too I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I 21 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Is it Auchinlecks quest to join the Lowland League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The bottom line in all of this is that Junior football has to evolve or it will die a slow death. Continuing as it's aye been is no longer an option. Everyone has their part to play in this. As someone wiser than me once said, "I support of football club, not a grade of football." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, Quantum Leap said: Are the 2 biggest teams in Scotland not big fish in a small pond.? 36 minutes ago, Quantum Leap said: Are the 2 biggest teams in Scotland not big fish in a small pond.? they would be the first to admit it but they would also tell you how much they want to move to the pond down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Things will only change if teams and fans make an official complaint to the sfa/sfja it needs to be a structured and reasoned complaint though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Burnie_man said: As someone wiser than me once said, "I support of football club, not a grade of football." Why thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 If they are going to deny the most forward thinking and successful junior team a license then the rest should get there's withdrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefc Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The Auchinleck Talbot statement has really come at the correct time and well done to them for putting it out there. Kelty Hearts are in exactly the same situation where only yesterday emails where going back and forth between ourselves, the SJFA and SFA on our application. By signing a declaration to support the pyramid structure (which we view as an excellent and forward thinking motion) meant that in our opinion without the declaration directly explaining fully the procedure upon acceptance, we would be required (if we were successful with our application) to join the EOS League in order to join the pyramid. We seen our application as the next step in having our club recognised for good practice, having a good standard of facilities after heavy investment for the paying public and to position the club in a positive way if/when changes are made to the pyramid/junior grade. We don't see the EOS League with all due respect to the league and their clubs as an ambitious proposition for our club at this time and at no point did our application state we wanted to leave the SJFA. Our honest view with a common sense approach lead to that at some stage clubs in the SJFA would be involved in a pyramid structure, we wanted to be ready. We would want to put it out there that without being condescending or getting above our station that we had a couple of ideas in our application on how Junior clubs could be part of the pyramid if there was support for it. The application and Auchinleck's interest has prompted movement however and we do know Stewart Ragen & Tom Johnstone have a meeting pencilled in for April for a discussion which can only be a positive. Tom Johnstone deserves to be cut a bit slack also btw, he is behind anyway possible of improving our grade and is looking at different ideas to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think it's important to remember that the sjfa is essentially the sum of the wishes of its members. Tom Johnstone has very little room for taking executive action without the approval of the majority of the clubs. And he certainly won't have the power to take an executive decision on something like the pyramid. Once a definition of "commitment" is in place, it should become a lot easier to determine whether individually or collectively, clubs want to make that commitment. It seems to me that logic dictates that if you're playing in a league which has no means of connecting to the pyramid then you're not in a position of commitment. However, if the Glasgow Uni position is a true reflection of circumstances then that's a very strange state of affairs - unless they're being accorded the same grace as Girvan who were historically full members, became licenced and retained their historical membership on that basis. An example of this further up the tree would be that Annan had to meet much more stringent criteria for entry to the spfl than would be applied to Albion Rovers who were already in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, HTG said: I think it's important to remember that the sjfa is essentially the sum of the wishes of its members. Tom Johnstone has very little room for taking executive action without the approval of the majority of the clubs. And he certainly won't have the power to take an executive decision on something like the pyramid. Once a definition of "commitment" is in place, it should become a lot easier to determine whether individually or collectively, clubs want to make that commitment. I'd say that if TJ sat at an AGM and stated to clubs that he and the Executive committee recommended to member clubs that the SJFA should take forward negotiations about joining the Pyramid, a majority would nod it through. He's done it before with other issues, however if he himself is anti-Pyramid (which he is) then that wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Glasgow uni did apply to join the lowland league if it has any relevance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'd say that if TJ sat at an AGM and stated to clubs that he and the Executive committee recommended to member clubs that the SJFA should take forward negotiations about joining the Pyramid, a majority would nod it through. He's done it before with other issues, however if he himself is anti-Pyramid (which he is) then that wont happen. The sweet sum of feckall plus buggerall is actually ever discussed or voted at the agm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 There are 5 clubs outside the pyramid with licences... 3 were existing SFA members, the other 2 were part-way through the process when the "commitment" clause was brought in. In the case of Golspie and Banks o'Dee they can't get into the pyramid anyway as there is nothing under HL (which is wrong and should be addressed). In the case of Glasgow Uni they were reported to have applied unsuccessfully for LL several times but it's now at its full complement of 16 - so logically they'll have to look to SOSL. Linlithgow and their indeterminate waiver has been mentioned above. That leaves Girvan as the apparent outlier. However they like Glasgow Uni and Golspie were already members, whereas Auchinleck/Kelty aren't? Whether there should be a "commitment" clause is obviously a topic of debate. Ideally there should be a single non-league system, not different grades, which would be an end of the matter. While there is separate grades it doesn't seem surprising Junior clubs are apparently classed as not complying - SJFA hasn't joined and its leadership has voiced opposition. Incidentally, although Junior qualifiers were put into Scottish Cup preliminaries this season, so were Senior qualifiers and indeed non-pyramid/tier 6 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 . We don't see the EOS League with all due respect to the league and their clubs as an ambitious proposition for our club at this time. It would be though, as you'd finish top and only have to play in it one season, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFW Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Have discussed this matter at length with numerous Junior fans, and looking at it realistically there's nothing to stop some moneybags with intent, in coming into a semi decent Junior club, splashing a wee bit of cash around (we've seen it so many times) Join the SOS League, and romp it first season. Lowland League, splash a few bob more and hey presto you've or the verge of the SFL. Two seasons is realistically all it would take, great publicity for the new owner, the club itself, the ability to attract players to buy into the "vision" and you're away big style. When someone's next looking to pump decent money into the next Ayrshire Junior club after Kilwinning, Irvine Meadow and Hurlford, who's to say that's not what their aim would be rather than success in the Juniors. It will happen, am sure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS7 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The trade off for junior clubs in the Scottish cup should have been all non league senior clubs being given entry to the junior cup if they wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bul2 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I haven't ever bought into this Lowland league / Pyramid thing and don't understand much of it, so apologies if what I am going to say is my usual load of rubbish.However, what I cannot understand is where is all this money coming from to give to "licensed" clubs- between £4K - £10k has been quoted It would therefore appear that any two bit club who have a history you can write on the back of a stamp and don't have, in a lot of cases, a permanent home ground can feast at the top table as far as the SJFA/SFA. Are concerned the real clubs with decent support and history in the game can be knocked to the side to accommodate teams of students and , in the main, a level of performance that none of the usual suspects in the junior game would 9 times out of 10 , have any great bother beating in a game.In effect let's all sit back and allow the new kids on the block to take all the money out of our game to allow them to play "big boys" fitba till the reality means they lose interest or go bustWhy can the junior game not provide the feeder system to the football league(s)Who is lining their pockets in this farce ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bul2 said: I haven't ever bought into this Lowland league / Pyramid thing and don't understand much of it, so apologies if what I am going to say is my usual load of rubbish. However, what I cannot understand is where is all this money coming from to give to "licensed" clubs- between £4K - £10k has been quoted It would therefore appear that any two bit club who have a history you can write on the back of a stamp and don't have, in a lot of cases, a permanent home ground can feast at the top table as far as the SJFA/SFA. Are concerned the real clubs with decent support and history in the game can be knocked to the side to accommodate teams of students and , in the main, a level of performance that none of the usual suspects in the junior game would 9 times out of 10 , have any great bother beating in a game. In effect let's all sit back and allow the new kids on the block to take all the money out of our game to allow them to play "big boys" fitba till the reality means they lose interest or go bust Why can the junior game not provide the feeder system to the football league(s) Who is lining their pockets in this farce ?? Most junior clubs don't have the infrastucture to move forward nor the desire. The likes of Cumbernauld Colts, Spartans are community clubs that have teams at all levels. SO although their first team might not have any fans they have an infastructure their to potentially grow the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 The trade off for junior clubs in the Scottish cup should have been all non league senior clubs being given entry to the junior cup if they wanted it. That's not a far out an idea btw or entry into the challenge cup for the juniors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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