A STATEMENT FROM THE BEECHWOOD REGENERATION COMMITTEE

[calmac25]

They have stated their intent. They intended to gain an SFA licence as a club who have invested money and industry into the set up. Surely aiming for the next step of certification is a logical move. Why does there have to be an ulterior motive?

The SFA have said for the past couple of years about a commitment to the pyramid/progressive system. I applaud Talbot going for the licence standards as all clubs at this level should. I think the beechwood committee had been clear that the development was about having a facility to be proud off and that licencing was a secondary aim?

They could fall in to two categories though

A) we believe that there should be a pyramid but would like to see a better pathway then joining the southern counties league. We will be ready for this eventuality when it comes. I would applaud this and they should be given a temporary licence until the mess is sorted out.

B) we want to stay in a separate structure but have access to the Scottish cup every year. We have no desire for change.

[newcastle broon]

Don't need to spout pish aboot joining the sos or eos leagues the LL was there for everyone to apply at the time. 

Now the LL is going from strength to strength with SPFL teams shi ting themselves it seems is not so bad after all..... 

[TFW]

As the Regeneration Committee state though, the regeneration of Beechwood Park will carry on regardless. The fans have contributed massively towards this by donations of memorabilia and programmes over the last four years which has seen £9,000 raised, £7,000 of which has already gone into the regenration projects so far - which I suppose is the ultimate in recycling if you're a football fan.

We still get donations most weeks, locally and nationally as folk appreciate the work going on. At the end of the day, this half cocked scheme by the SFA would eventually rob Talbot of it's standing within the game, it's culture and it's history, were we to participate in it. If at some time in the future there is a genuine attempt to make a fully inclusive pyramid instead of the current set up who knows?

Just a query.....Do the winners of the play offs have the right to refuse to membership of the SFL if they really don't wish to step up?

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Don't need to spout pish aboot joining the sos or eos leagues the LL was there for everyone to apply at the time. 

Now the LL is going from strength to strength with SPFL teams shi ting themselves it seems is not so bad after all..... 

Is there evidence though that teams from Juniors want to join it.  Linlithgow had their licence and could have tried to get in last year when Threave Rovers left, Is the standard better I question that when Shire are 2nd in Lowland league when half the team were at Camelon last year with the same manager that finished 11th in the Super League

[stanley]

12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They were members of the SFA before Linlithgow, but obtained their license well after shortly before the deadline to retain Scottish Cup entry for this season.

Exactly.  If Auchinleck are told that they have to join the EoS/SoS leagues in order to get a licence then why didn't that happen to Girvan or Glasgow Uni?  Something strange is going on or the rules are being applied very inconsistently.  I also find it a strange idea that the rules were changed during Linlithgow's application but the SFA let Linlithgow keep their licence anyway.  Surely they could have removed it after?  

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, TFW said:

As the Regeneration Committee state though, the regeneration of Beechwood Park will carry on regardless. The fans have contributed massively towards this by donations of memorabilia and programmes over the last four years which has seen £9,000 raised, £7,000 of which has already gone into the regenration projects so far - which I suppose is the ultimate in recycling if you're a football fan.

We still get donations most weeks, locally and nationally as folk appreciate the work going on. At the end of the day, this half cocked scheme by the SFA would eventually rob Talbot of it's standing within the game, it's culture and it's history, were we to participate in it. If at some time in the future there is a genuine attempt to make a fully inclusive pyramid instead of the current set up who knows?

Just a query.....Do the winners of the play offs have the right to refuse to membership of the SFL if they really don't wish to step up?

Shouldn't be in the Lowland League if they don't want to get promotion

 

[newcastle broon]

1 minute ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Is there evidence though that teams from Juniors want to join it.  Linlithgow had their licence and could have tried to get in last year when Threave Rovers left, Is the standard better I question that when Shire are 2nd in Lowland league when half the team were at Camelon last year with the same manager that finished 11th in the Super League

It's no aboot standards though bud my point was the LL was well advertised at the time. 

Now it seems a few junior heeds are turning at what it's become.

To me junior fitba should become one and all under the same organisation not just sJfa but sfa or whatever it would call itself. Only in Scotland do we have this separate non league pish. 

The LL is  far from perfect but the benefits are there for all to see. Media coverage for a start I've friends in the south of England and Wales who know what the LL is. Nae disrespect to Auchinleck and the like but these teams take some explaining? 

Im fairly certain in future years though the LL will be like England and be regionalised with Maybes an SPFL league 3 thrown in. 

[newcastle broon]

5 minutes ago, Quantum Leap said:

 

Deluded.

 

No me mate your just happy being big fish in wee pond. Nowt wrong wi that

 

[archieb]

9 minutes ago, TFW said:

Just a query.....Do the winners of the play offs have the right to refuse to membership of the SFL if they really don't wish to step up?

 

5 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Shouldn't be in the Lowland League if they don't want to get promotion

Interesting that a similar issue is being debated on the SoSL forum regarding whether their champions (probably Wigtown & Bladnoch) would be penalised for refusing promotion to the LL.

[calmac25]

Exactly.  If Auchinleck are told that they have to join the EoS/SoS leagues in order to get a licence then why didn't that happen to Girvan or Glasgow Uni?  Something strange is going on or the rules are being applied very inconsistently.  I also find it a strange idea that the rules were changed during Linlithgow's application but the SFA let Linlithgow keep their licence anyway.  Surely they could have removed it after?  

The licence is re assessed each year so if the SFA are taking a tough stance then Girvan and Glasgow uni will have a decision to make in May and Linlithgow in August

I'll be interested to see what Kelty say in their statement this weekend and hopefully it's the case that the SFA and SJFA are discussing resolving this

[Burnie_man]

The LL remains fairly poor with only a handful of clubs of a Superleague standard or being able to attract anything remotely approaching a three figure crowd. We have Glasgow teams playing in Alloa and Stirling teams playing in Falkirk in front of nothing more than friends and family.  It was a flawed concept from the very beginning and the SFA and the SJFA’s action are culpable for that to varying degrees.

However that’s in the past and Pyramid systems evolve, it’s time Regan and the SFA took it to the next level by introducing a LL West, and engaging directly with Junior clubs (not the SJFA), but they do not appear to be interested. They make no effort to promote club licencing and when a club gets off its backside and goes for it, a barrier is placed in their way. Pointing to the SoS and EoS and saying you have to move to those leagues is absurd (and to be fair, I think it’s unenforceable given other precedents). Someone mentioned protectionism and they may have a point.

A Lowland League West sitting above the West Junior Superleague should be what progressive West Region clubs are aiming for, maybe this will be a catalyst? It should be. The power for change sits with the clubs.

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The LL remains fairly poor with only a handful of clubs of a Superleague standard or being able to attract anything remotely approaching a three figure crowd. We have Glasgow teams playing in Alloa and Stirling teams playing in Falkirk in front of nothing more than friends and family.  It was a flawed concept from the very beginning and the SFA and the SJFA’s action are culpable for that to varying degrees.

However that’s in the past and Pyramid systems evolve, it’s time Regan and the SFA took it to the next level by introducing a LL West, and engaging directly with Junior clubs (not the SJFA), but they do not appear to be interested. They make no effort to promote club licencing and when a club gets off its backside and goes for it, a barrier is placed in their way. Pointing to the SoS and EoS and saying you have to move to those leagues is absurd (and to be fair, I think it’s unenforceable given other precedents). Someone mentioned protectionism and they may have a point.

A Lowland League West sitting above the West Junior Superleague should be what progressive West Region clubs are aiming for, maybe this will be a catalyst? It should be. The power for change sits with the clubs.

Where do you get the clubs from this.  How many West Region Super League clubs would be able to go for Licensing.  I just don't see it.  I think its all nice ideas I'd love a pyramid but sorting it out in the current quagmire could be the problem.   Currently 13 teams in the current lowland league are from the East.  3 East Kilbride, BSC Glasgow and Cumbernauld Colts would make 3 teams.  Could find anohter 3 potentially to join Lowland LEague east but is there such desire in the West.  Auchinleck Talbot as it stands would be the only team to go into it. Girvan and Glasgow UNI maybe.  SO at best theirs 6 teams to become Lowland League West. Whos to say Auchinleck want to go to such a League as they aren't wanting to travel to South of Scotland League to get there at the minute.  Yes it is a ludicrous scenario to have them go there.

[LongTimeLurker]

22 minutes ago, stanley said:

Exactly.  If Auchinleck are told that they have to join the EoS/SoS leagues in order to get a licence then why didn't that happen to Girvan or Glasgow Uni?  Something strange is going on or the rules are being applied very inconsistently.  I also find it a strange idea that the rules were changed during Linlithgow's application but the SFA let Linlithgow keep their licence anyway.  Surely they could have removed it after?  

They were probably afraid of legal action for financial compensation based on the money Linlithgow spent to get Prestonfield up to standard given the goalposts were shifted half way through, so had to grandfather them in.

[archieb]

10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The LL remains fairly poor with only a handful of clubs of a Superleague standard or being able to attract anything remotely approaching a three figure crowd. We have Glasgow teams playing in Alloa and Stirling teams playing in Falkirk in front of nothing more than friends and family.  It was a flawed concept from the very beginning and the SFA and the SJFA’s action are culpable for that to varying degrees.

However that’s in the past and Pyramid systems evolve, it’s time Regan and the SFA took it to the next level by introducing a LL West, and engaging directly with Junior clubs (not the SJFA), but they do not appear to be interested. They make no effort to promote club licencing and when a club gets off its backside and goes for it, a barrier is placed in their way. Pointing to the SoS and EoS and saying you have to move to those leagues is absurd (and to be fair, I think it’s unenforceable given other precedents). Someone mentioned protectionism and they may have a point.

A Lowland League West sitting above the West Junior Superleague should be what progressive West Region clubs are aiming for, maybe this will be a catalyst? It should be. The power for change sits with the clubs.

Surely the West Premier Division already constitutes a "Lowland League West"? What other West clubs would be suitable for adding to it from outside the Junior ranks other than EKFC perhaps? Glasgow Uni or BSC (surely not)? Cumbernauld Colts Dalbeattie or Gretna ...

[AlanCamelonfan]

7 minutes ago, archieb said:

Surely the West Premier Division already constitutes a "Lowland League West"? What other West clubs would be suitable for adding to it from outside the Junior ranks other than EKFC perhaps? Glasgow Uni or BSC (surely not)? Cumbernauld Colts Dalbeattie or Gretna ...

But none of the West SUper League clubs have the licence and only 1 as it stands was going to do so

[HTG]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They were probably afraid of legal action for financial compensation based on the money Linlithgow spent to get Prestonfield up to standard given the goalposts were shifted half way through, so had to grandfather them in.

The requirement was introduced as the Linlithgow application was being assessed. It didn't exist at the point of submission. It wasn't about money. It was a recognition that you couldn't refuse a club who met all the specified criteria on the basis that they didn't meet one you hadn't told them about. 

[archieb]

1 minute ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But none of the West SUper League clubs have the licence and only 1 as it stands was going to do so

Agreed, if the priority is for a LL West to be all licensed rather than made up of the strongest candidates overall

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, archieb said:

Agreed, if the priority is for a LL West to be all licensed rather than made up of the strongest candidates overall

It would be because you could let all these teams in to start it but then they wouldnt be able to get promoted if they didn't meet the rules.  So they would need to be licenced

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But none of the West SUper League clubs have the licence and only 1 as it stands was going to do so

The current situation was engineered to ensure junior clubs would stay in their own separate grade and UEFA could be satisfied that a pyramid was in place with nothing much really changing for anybody other than East Stirlingshire and probably in the years ahead a couple of the other most diddiest of SPFL clubs. Nothing radical is likely to happen any time soon given the LL is looking reasonably stable now. Not sure what Talbot can do at this point, which was what the question that the last parargraph of the original post started with. Go over the head of the SFA and appeal to UEFA and/or the CAS?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport

[Burnie_man]

Surely the West Premier Division already constitutes a "Lowland League West"? What other West clubs would be suitable for adding to it from outside the Junior ranks other than EKFC perhaps? Glasgow Uni or BSC (surely not)? Cumbernauld Colts Dalbeattie or Gretna ...

 

Well I guess what would need to happen would be the existing LL clubs deemed to be West based would be your starter in a new LL West, then add current Junior clubs to make it up to 16.

 

In the East, the gap created by those West clubs leaving the current LL would be vacancies for Junior clubs in the East to fill.

 

The current LL didn't start with all clubs being licenced, it took some a couple of seasons to get one. That same pragmatic approach would be required.