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West Region restructure proposal.


The Ilford Drummer

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3 hours ago, Nugent4nil said:

Neilston for example who played in the Ayrshire leagues for years and are the only non Ayrshire team to lift the Ayrshire Cup to my knowledge.

Your knowledge is slightly flawed...Kello Rovers have lifted the Ayrshire Cup more than once.

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17 hours ago, archieb said:

 

2. One of the major driving forces for Super Premier clubs who are supporting this is precisely in order to get an increase in the number of home league fixtures per season and thereby augment  their guaranteed income from gate takings and associated sources.

The additional fixtures CAN be accommodated within the existing season, although my personal preference would be to scrap the late-season divisional cups which attract poor crowds and can be a financial drain on clubs whose league season is complete and who have to hold onto and pay players they would rather release.

 

15 hours ago, archieb said:

 

Why should these clubs be left to struggle because a handful of others have fixture backlogs created by unusual success, or because their home grounds are quagmires?

 

There is no way in hell Talbot can fit another 8 games into a normal season without something else changing.

For Talbot it is not unusual success. It is almost every season. We have seen Shotts a couple of seasons ago and Kilwinning and Cumnock last season complaing about the amount of fixtures crammed into the end of the season but Talbot do it every year.

With another 8 games it would be Sat, Mon, Wed, Sat (and possible the occasional Thursday) for a good few weeks to fit them in.

This is a nonsense and unfair to players to spend so many nights away from their family and costly for supporters having to fork out for so many games in such a short space of time

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26 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

 

There is no way in hell Talbot can fit another 8 games into a normal season without something else changing.

For Talbot it is not unusual success. It is almost every season. We have seen Shotts a couple of seasons ago and Kilwinning and Cumnock last season complaing about the amount of fixtures crammed into the end of the season but Talbot do it every year.

With another 8 games it would be Sat, Mon, Wed, Sat (and possible the occasional Thursday) for a good few weeks to fit them in.

This is a nonsense and unfair to players to spend so many nights away from their family and costly for supporters having to fork out for so many games in such a short space of time

Well if you don't like it chummy you can always take the club licensing option and move to the SoSL!

Seriously though, the proposals are far from a nonsense, they are about helping the majority of clubs to survive in a very difficult financial climate and as I've explained above the change is perfectly do-able and of course other things may have to be changed too.

For example, clubs with serious fixture congestion could be given automatic byes for the early rounds of certain knockout competitions (as the Junior clubs with places in the "big" Scottish cup are for R1 of the Junior Cup) or be allowed to withdraw from the late-season district cups (if those are retained) as has happened before.

In any case the sustainability of Junior football is not all to do with the interests of the few super-successful clubs and you need to wake up to that.

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2 minutes ago, archieb said:

Well if you don't like it chummy you can always take the club licensing option and move to the SoSL!

Seriously though, the proposals are far from a nonsense, they are about helping the majority of clubs to survive in a very difficult financial climate and as I've explained above the change is perfectly do-able.

Additionally, for example, clubs with serious fixture congestion could be given automatic byes for the early rounds of certain knockout competitions (as the Junior clubs with places in the "big" Scottish cup are for R1 of the Junior Cup) or be allowed to withdraw from the late-season district cups (if those are retained) as has happened before.

In any case the sustainability of Junior football is not all to do with the interests of the few super-successful clubs and you need to wake up to that.

So basically you are saying if you are successful and win games F*** you

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2 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

So basically you are saying if you are successful and win games F*** you

No, I'm saying look beyond the narrow confines of Beechwood at the situation faced by clubs that have not had the sustained success in recent years that Talbot have enjoyed and don't try to stand in the way of changes that will benefit the majority of clubs in the Region.

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I can understand the point made by WEC about this being a problem. Obviously recently it's Talbot who have had this problem more than others, but Pollok has similar issues when winning the super league, reaching Scottish semi finals and playing senior Scottish many years ago (unfortunately), and another 8 games would mean the season would end in July for some teams, so not ideal. 

However, the league needs to be a priority in junior football so clubs know the gave a decent amount of home games a year. The league to cup game balance is all wrong.

So they could look to have preliminary sectional games for the bottom two divisions, and while these are played the top two leagues start the league campaign on day one of the season, then when the top two leagues become involved there would be a two week window of sectional games a few weeks into the season. 

Based on the assumption the top league sides will play more cup games later in the season while the Lower league sides will be less likely they can catch up on league games. 

Another solution is to play the ET cup as a pre season tournament, instead of friendly games, could be a mini league. 

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When the East expanded their top division they scrapped their league cup so at least they freed up a few dates for league games. This proposal is just adding games.

If you go deep in the Junior cup and have a reasonable run in the senior Scottish it will literally be impossible to finish the season. Talbot have been playing up to the 3rd week in June as it is without an extra 8 games. 

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It would have been impossible to construct a reconstruction motion that could deal with all the possible knock-on consequences of the basic change advocated to the satisfaction of all 64 clubs in the region. That would have had to be so complex that it would have become bogged down in debate about minor detail and never stood a chance of successful adoption.

Of necessity the proposal has been kept as simple as seemed possible but with the recognition that, should it (hopefully) be voted for by the requisite majority, there would be a further 12 months to devise appropriate consequent changes to fixture timings, cup competitions etc such as those suggested in earlier posts on this thread. Then, if any of these changes requires further AGM motions in order to be implemented there would be an opportunity to do that at the 2018 meeting.

Also please bear in mind that if neither this nor any alternative proposal is adopted this year, it will not be possible to vote on any other reconstruction proposal for a further 2 years and the current, tired and unsatisfactory league structure will remain in place at least until the beginning of season 2020-2021!

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21 minutes ago, archieb said:

Also please bear in mind that if neither this nor any alternative proposal is adopted this year, it will not be possible to vote on any other reconstruction proposal for a further 2 years and the current, tired and unsatisfactory league structure will remain in place at least until the beginning of season 2020-2021!

Out of interest, where did that come from, and why don't clubs just simply vote to remove it?

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7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Our of interest, where did that come from, and why don't clubs just simply vote to remove it?

I'm pretty sure it's in the SJFA national constitution and as such a mandatory part of the 3 regional constitutions.

So it could only be removed by a successful motion to the national AGM.

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2 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said:

When the East expanded their top division they scrapped their league cup so at least they freed up a few dates for league games. This proposal is just adding games.

If you go deep in the Junior cup and have a reasonable run in the senior Scottish it will literally be impossible to finish the season. Talbot have been playing up to the 3rd week in June as it is without an extra 8 games. 

You really are like a dog with a bone, aren't you?

I have already dealt with these moans earlier in the thread.

And I'm sure that Talbot's 'problems' you're complaining about are ones that other clubs would gladly take on in their place!

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The sectional league cups are utter dross. My team won it this season and its still utter dross. Bin it. Get the leagues started from the off. League , Scottish , West the rest are past their sell by date. Leagues should be priority , the main focus like they are everywhere else apart from the warped world of the juniors.

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See you think it's dross some others think it's dross but many people don't.

We had a great time in our sectional league cup run and eventual win this season and some 700 people were at the final about 85/90 per cent of the crowd were from kirky you could see at the end what it meant to everyone.

Not everyone can win trophies every year for every club who do so regular or semi regular you have ten or fifteen who don't.

 

I agree it's probably time to ditch one of them but in junior football there is always a place for a stand alone district cup and my club and fans for one will always value it .

As for the proposal 4 leagues of 16 named premier division 1,2,3 is defiantly the way to go.

3 up 3 down or possibly 3 up 3 down and a playoff between 4th bottom and 4th top both good for me.

I agree with the chap from Pollok we have to do what's good for 95 per cent of the clubs in the region it really is as simple as that.

 

I've enjoyed reading this thread and hopefully the change will come to freshen up junior football in what for me is still the beating heart beat of the junior grade the west region.

 

 

 

 

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Change has to come. The current set up is tired and is no longer fit for purpose. Well done to all involved in creating this model. For me it should work well.

Archie is right in that with a years grace after agreement more work can be done to tailor the season. With the chance of starting pre-season friendliest earlier you could in essence start the sectional league cup earlier or if clubs want remove or change the format. At the end of the day the most important thing is we restructure the leagues.

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10 hours ago, archieb said:

it will not be possible to vote on any other reconstruction proposal for a further 2 years and the current, tired and unsatisfactory league structure will remain in place at least until the beginning of season 2020-2021!

WHAT? This is football reconstruction, on a slightly more important agenda, Nicola is calling for another referendum 2 n half years after last one!

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If the Whitletts change is voted through, I seriously hope the leagues have sensible names like Premier, 1st, 2nd & 3rd, or even 1 to 4. None of this unimaginative Premiership/Championship/League One/League Two crap like the Scottish FA have copied from England.

Having the 2nd top league called the Championship is just plain daft in my opinion, and shows that the people who run the SPFL don't understand why the English did that, ie because the top league in England is run by the English Premier League while the leagues below are run by the English Football League. That's not the case in Scotland, they're all run by the SPFL, but they still copied the silly names because they have no imagination.

Please, not in the West Region Juniors guys, keep it sensible. [emoji16]

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34 minutes ago, glensmad said:

If the Whitletts change is voted through, I seriously hope the leagues have sensible names like Premier, 1st, 2nd & 3rd, or even 1 to 4. None of this unimaginative Premiership/Championship/League One/League Two crap like the Scottish FA have copied from England.

Having the 2nd top league called the Championship is just plain daft in my opinion, and shows that the people who run the SPFL don't understand why the English did that, ie because the top league in England is run by the English Premier League while the leagues below are run by the English Football League. That's not the case in Scotland, they're all run by the SPFL, but they still copied the silly names because they have no imagination.

Please, not in the West Region Juniors guys, keep it sensible. emoji16.png

If you don't like the names, they can be changed by proposing an amendment.

Whatever you think of them they're not as silly/confusing as the names used for the top two divisions in the East!!

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As stated in the back log of games why doesn't the fixture man just make at the start of the season a couple of mid week games when the suns still out to help with the usual back log off games come the end off the season? I'm sure the east do that?

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