Rovers v QoS

[Distant Doonhamer]

43 minutes ago, R.R.FC said:

That's an important point, I make it April last year since we last won a league game where we fell behind. With confidence so fragile at the moment (with the team and fans) we can't afford to go behind.

In terms of a league game i think it`s also April 2016 for us when we came from behind to beat Livi 3-1.

[Guest Flash]

2 hours ago, Martin Nelson said:

 

So, first goal wins then?

Only if Raith score it.

We've drawn 3 and lost 1 after scoring first. I think we have scored first 13 times, so there is a 69% chance we will win when scoring first, 23% chance of a draw and 8% chance of defeat.

Think we have also lost the first goal 13 times and have lost 11 and drawn 2. So 0% chance of winning, 15% chance of a draw and 85% chance of losing.

Edited cos I can't count.

[Distant Doonhamer]

47 minutes ago, Flash said:

Only if Raith score it.

We've drawn 3 and lost 1 after scoring first. I think we have scored first 13 times, so there is a 69% chance we will win when scoring first, 23% chance of a draw and 8% chance of defeat.

Think we have also lost the first goal 13 times and have lost 10 and drawn 3. So 0% chance of winning, 23% chance of a draw and 77% chance of losing.

I`m pretty sure it`s only 2 league games where have drawn after conceding first goal. Dunfermline away recently and Dundee United away in January. Quite possible i`ve missed one though.

[Guest Flash]

3 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I`m pretty sure it`s only 2 league games where have drawn after conceding first goal. Dunfermline away recently and Dundee United away in January. Quite possible i`ve missed one though.

No, you're right enough, it is only 2. For some reason I thought Dundee U scored first in August at Tannadice. Then I think I counted it again as us scoring first. 

[palmy_cammy]

4 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

One of my main concerns is that when we lose the first goal in a match we virually never come back to win and rarely seem to get even a point. I don`t think we have come back to win after losing the first goal in any league match this season (we did in the cup game at Hibs -probably our best result of the season). I reckon we have 2 draws in the league after losing the first goal, recent game away to Dunfermline and at Dundee United in January where despite being 3-1 up with not long left we didn`t win. When the opposition score first i just assume we won`t win, looks a bit like the team feels the same.

I'm no psychologist but there has to be something mental at play here.  That along with our complete bottling of any "big game" this season would suggest a real lack of mental strength.  We have failed to turn up in the League Cup tie with Rangers, the Scottish Cup shambles against Albion Rovers, surrendering to Dundee United in the Challenge Cup and the recent no-show against Falkirk.

Openly criticising the players probably won't aide this of course.

 

[Sloop John B]

27 minutes ago, palmy_cammy said:

I'm no psychologist but there has to be something mental at play here.  That along with our complete bottling of any "big game" this season would suggest a real lack of mental strength.  We have failed to turn up in the League Cup tie with Rangers, the Scottish Cup shambles against Albion Rovers, surrendering to Dundee United in the Challenge Cup and the recent no-show against Falkirk.

Openly criticising the players probably won't aide this of course.

 

 

You could go back longer than that to being unable to get into a title race in a pretty weak league under McIntyre, 2 first round playoff defeats including one in the 120th minute after taking the lead, losing narrow Scottish Cup games to Falkirk, Dumbarton and Albion Rovers, the entirety of last season was a similar story to the current one.  There just appears to be an inherent weakness when it comes to Queens that nobody has ever believed that we could win big games at this level for about as long as I can remember really.  Not really sure how you change such a culture of inferiority as it has transcended managers, players and ownerships but you are right in that hanging players out to dry isn't a particularly good solution.

[happysouth]

 
You could go back longer than that to being unable to get into a title race in a pretty weak league under McIntyre, 2 first round playoff defeats including one in the 120th minute after taking the lead, losing narrow Scottish Cup games to Falkirk, Dumbarton and Albion Rovers, the entirety of last season was a similar story to the current one.  There just appears to be an inherent weakness when it comes to Queens that nobody has ever believed that we could win big games at this level for about as long as I can remember really.  Not really sure how you change such a culture of inferiority as it has transcended managers, players and ownerships but you are right in that hanging players out to dry isn't a particularly good solution.

While not completely disagreeing with you we have also won a few 'big games' in the last 10 years as well.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, happysouth said:

 

While not completely disagreeing with you we have also won a few 'big games' in the last 10 years as well.

 

Agreed.  I think there is something brittle about us at the moment, but in going back, if we're criticising key defeats in the last few seasons, we surely have to acknowledge things like beating St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup and the week two years ago when we beat Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk in the League.  The picture is more mixed than it's been this season.

[Distant Doonhamer]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Agreed.  I think there is something brittle about us at the moment, but in going back, if we're criticising key defeats in the last few seasons, we surely have to acknowledge things like beating St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup and the week two years ago when we beat Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk in the League.  The picture is more mixed than it's been this season.

Indeed. We have had some excellent victories is some big games over the last decade including a run to the Scottish Cup Final which was certainly something I thought i`d never see (with victories over Aberdeen, Dundee and perhaps most remarkably of all away to The Famous). This season we seem incredibly fragile despite having made a very decent start to the campaign.

[Sloop John B]

Just now, happysouth said:

 

While not completely disagreeing with you we have also won a few 'big games' in the last 10 years as well.

 

Of course we have otherwise we'd be playing Clyde 4 times a season

The main point I'm making is that when it comes to the truly decisive games we have fallen flat which is why we haven't finished anything higher than 4th. Falkirk in the first year of the playoffs we held a well earned two goal lead at half time of the second leg and conceded 3 goals to throw it away. That season we managed to recover from a messy start but lost important games to Dundee, Falkirk and Hamilton.

The season after, you achieve an awful lot just to get to the playoffs in a tough league but go out with a whimper at home to a very vulnerable Rangers side and a great squad disappears into the sunset. To go out of the cup after comfortably beating the holders by going out quietly to Falkirk is still frustrating.

2015/16 - despite being bloody rubbish we were somehow in 4th place in February and then proceeded to finish 7th and 20 points behind Raith. Why is it that our bad patches are always fatal yet other teams can get out of it and push on. The fact that a team with Kyle Hutton, Mark Millar and Robbie Thomson have come closer than this year's side is genuinely depressing.

It's a constant stream of what ifs, glorious failures and downright failures whilst previously diddy teams that we have been in higher leagues recently like Hamilton, Ross County, Inverness, Morton, Partick and Raith have either actually achieved something or have come a lot closer to doing something that feels about as far away as it ever has. I might just be very irritable today but it is fairly clear to see especially from a league perspective that there isn't a mental toughness that can help a team do something special over a 36 game season.

If think there is a level of expectation now that the likes of Chisholm and Brannigan got away with as the notion that we used to be part time and rubbish was fairly recent in the memory, if any post McPherson manager had finished 4th with prime Dobbie, P&B would have had the pitchforks readied. In the longer term should be a good thing but whether that translates on the pitch in the short term remains to be seen.

[Skyline Drifter]

16 minutes ago, Sloop John B said:

 

The season after, you achieve an awful lot just to get to the playoffs in a tough league but go out with a whimper at home to a very vulnerable Rangers side and a great squad disappears into the sunset.

I acknowledge a lot of your points though I think with some of them you are taking a deliberately negative slant. I'm not having it though that we went out with a whimper to Rangers. The home leg was a disappointment after having beaten them twice in the league but we then led at Ibrox for a long time and lost a slightly unfortunate equaliser. We were denied extra time by Vukcic's goal line clearance and Rangers finished with a back six while they tried to shut up shop. We gave them a far better game than Hibs did the round after.

[Guest Flash]

Maybe they need to re-think the bonus system.

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

Totally agree with SD re. the Rangers play-off. 

We got right back into the tie by scoring first at Ibrox and had them on the ropes for the latter part of the game. Del's effort was an absolute peach and deserved better. The turning point was the Reilly mishap. Nevertheless, that is one of the matches where I have felt really proud of everyone's efforts and performance.

I love watching that goal. The current Management team could learn a lot from it too.  A swift, incisive passing move after Clark lost the ball turned defence to attack in a matter of seconds then a lovely ball from Del out to Carmichael who puts in a sublime cross which Del meets beautifully having continued his run.

Another one that comes to mind is the equaliser at Ibrox in 2012 which took us to extra time and ultimately victory in the Challenge Cup. With just seconds remaining in normal time. I and probably most other Queens fans, were wanting a punt up to  the opposing box but what we actually did was work it on the ground down the right side, produce a quality ball in and the rest is history. Actually, the first goal was a fine one too that came from a quality ball in from the left.

Seems to be a common theme in that if you get down the wings and produce good crosses into the box there is a distinct possibility of scoring a goal.  That's how I like to see football played.

I think also, those crosses came from the same foot of the player as the side of the park he was on i.e. from the outside not the inside. Bit clumsy that but to clarify - at the moment Thomas plays on the right and has to cut in every time  and more often than not shoots to no avail. The only occasion I recall him producing a decent cross was Morton (H) when Del scored but we have hardly done it since.  The goals I am referring to were from Carmichael right footed from the right side and Gibson left footed from the left side. This seems to me a much more dangerous approach which defenders find more difficult to deal with.

Surely a midfield four with Carmichael on the right and Thomas on the left, Dobbie and Lyle up front would be a much more attractive and attacking proposition. I can only suspect Carmichael is not fully fit given the limited opportunities he has been given but it is important he is utilised properly when he does come on.

Going back to the original point, under AJ we did not fear anyone and gave some bigger teams a going over.  I also think we had belief when taking on Rangers in the play-offs and were very unlucky not to progress.   It is winning that breeds confidence.

[Homer Thompson]

9 hours ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

Totally agree with SD re. the Rangers play-off. 

We got right back into the tie by scoring first at Ibrox and had them on the ropes for the latter part of the game. Del's effort was an absolute peach and deserved better. The turning point was the Reilly mishap. Nevertheless, that is one of the matches where I have felt really proud of everyone's efforts and performance.

I love watching that goal. The current Management team could learn a lot from it too.  A swift, incisive passing move after Clark lost the ball turned defence to attack in a matter of seconds then a lovely ball from Del out to Carmichael who puts in a sublime cross which Del meets beautifully having continued his run.

Another one that comes to mind is the equaliser at Ibrox in 2012 which took us to extra time and ultimately victory in the Challenge Cup. With just seconds remaining in normal time. I and probably most other Queens fans, were wanting a punt up to  the opposing box but what we actually did was work it on the ground down the right side, produce a quality ball in and the rest is history. Actually, the first goal was a fine one too that came from a quality ball in from the left.

Seems to be a common theme in that if you get down the wings and produce good crosses into the box there is a distinct possibility of scoring a goal.  That's how I like to see football played.

I think also, those crosses came from the same foot of the player as the side of the park he was on i.e. from the outside not the inside. Bit clumsy that but to clarify - at the moment Thomas plays on the right and has to cut in every time  and more often than not shoots to no avail. The only occasion I recall him producing a decent cross was Morton (H) when Del scored but we have hardly done it since.  The goals I am referring to were from Carmichael right footed from the right side and Gibson left footed from the left side. This seems to me a much more dangerous approach which defenders find more difficult to deal with.

Surely a midfield four with Carmichael on the right and Thomas on the left, Dobbie and Lyle up front would be a much more attractive and attacking proposition. I can only suspect Carmichael is not fully fit given the limited opportunities he has been given but it is important he is utilised properly when he does come on.

Going back to the original point, under AJ we did not fear anyone and gave some bigger teams a going over.  I also think we had belief when taking on Rangers in the play-offs and were very unlucky not to progress.   It is winning that breeds confidence.

Theres nothing more dangerous, in my opinion, than wingers who can get to the byeline and cross the ball - we saw that on Saturday.

Thomas has been dangerous cutting in when he first joined but recently he's struggled to get into games. I'd agree with you that its time to try him on the left with Carmichael, or possibly, Hilson on the right and Dobbie and another up front. I suggested earlier in the week that Id like to see Hilson get a start up front as I feel we lack pace there which makes us much easier to defend against, but I wouldnt be bothered if Lyle started instead.

Unfortunately, I think we'll continue to try and shoehorn Thomson, Jacobs and Rankin into the team.

[Guest Flash]

48 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Theres nothing more dangerous, in my opinion, than wingers who can get to the byeline and cross the ball - we saw that on Saturday.

Thomas has been dangerous cutting in when he first joined but recently he's struggled to get into games. I'd agree with you that its time to try him on the left with Carmichael, or possibly, Hilson on the right and Dobbie and another up front. I suggested earlier in the week that Id like to see Hilson get a start up front as I feel we lack pace there which makes us much easier to defend against, but I wouldnt be bothered if Lyle started instead.

Unfortunately, I think we'll continue to try and shoehorn Thomson, Jacobs and Rankin into the team.

Agree with this. Could even try Murray on the right or up front if Hilson isn't fit enough to start.

Can't see it happening, though, because it isn't the "modern" way. Plus he is going to look a bit of a tool to the BOD having pushed the boat out to sign Rankin on an 18 month contract then not playing him.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

Didn't Rankin say at the time that the chance of regular football was one of the reasons he signed. If he was promised this then the Manager was obviously set on a formation to fit him in irrespective of the fact that it may not suit the strengths of the rest of the squad.

[Homer Thompson]

24 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Didn't Rankin say at the time that the chance of regular football was one of the reasons he signed. If he was promised this then the Manager was obviously set on a formation to fit him in irrespective of the fact that it may not suit the strengths of the rest of the squad.

I wouldnt be surprised if Naysmith saw Rankin and Thomson as his first choice central midfielders but theres no way he could drop Jacobs at the moment. Based on current form, Rankin is third choice for me.

[Beachbum]

Anyway, back on topic, hoping for a 4-0 win for obvious reasons.

[renton]

12 minutes ago, Beachbum said:

Anyway, back on topic, hoping for a 4-0 win for obvious reasons.

If we get horsed, we'll start hearing about 'new signings' in the press again....

[Fae_the_'briggs]

Difficult place to go blah blah, Raith home form picked up under new manager blah blah, individual errors are costing us goals blah blah, still got a lot to play for blah blah. 

Personally finding it difficult to summon up enough enthusiasm to attend this but I'll probably make the effort through a sense of duty and the fear of missing the Manager unexpectedly putting out a formation that benefits our potential goalscorers. 

If we get a win or draw I predict the Manager to say We did well, and if we get beat, They have let me down again.