Gordon EF Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 We all know P&B is ridiculously Yes-centric but have many opinions shifted from 2014 and which way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Yes then, yes now, yes always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Good idea for a thread. Hopefully we get honest answers to get a proper perspective of where things sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yes then, yes now, yes always. Which one are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I voted 'No' in 2014 - albeit with no great enthusiasm. Whilst the Brexit vote was perhaps the final straw, as I mentioned on another thread, elements of my constitutional and political thinking have changed sufficiently in the interim that I would very likely have considered myself pro-independence by now even if the EU referendum had gone my way. I do regret my 2014 vote, truth be told, and if I could wind back the clock I would vote 'Yes', but I was doing what I thought was right and best at the time, even if I now consider my vote to be misguided; it seems like I will get an opportunity to rectify it much sooner than I had envisaged, thankfully. My vote is only one in literally millions, though. I'm hopefully well positioned to talk to some of my anti-independence friends and family members about my journey to 'Yes', especially because my opinion didn't just change on the morning of the 24th of June. Ultimately, though, the switch of position has to come from within the individual; when I think of my thought process that led to my change of heart on the issue, it came about because I was introspective and willing to challenge my own opinions - and admit to myself that I might have made a mistake. If enough soft 'No' voters are willing to engage in a similar process, and enough 'Yes' people engage constructively, respectfully and openly with them, we can hopefully get the result we want this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 ^^^^terrific post^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Posted this on another thread.Snapshot of my own family. Me - Spoilt ballot last time/ Yes this timeWife - No/YesSon - Did note vote/ YesDaughter 1 - Yes/YesDaughter 2 - Yes/YesDaughter 3 - Did not vote/YesGran - No/RIPGrandad - No/RIPMother-in-law - No/RIPMum - No/NoStepdad - No/NoDad - No/ undecidedStepmum No/undecidedBrother - Yes/YesSister-in-law Yes/YesSister - Yes/Yes Last time was: Spoilt - 1Yes - 5No - 8Did not vote - 2Undecided - 0 Provisional votes for Indyref2: Spoilt - 0Yes - 9No - 2Will not vote - 3 deceasedUndecided - 2 The only votes for No were from the only two who voted for Brexit.The EU vote for me was the final straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Posted this on another thread.Snapshot of my own family. Me - Spoilt ballot last time/ Yes this timeWife - No/YesSon - Did note vote/ YesDaughter 1 - Yes/YesDaughter 2 - Yes/YesDaughter 3 - Did not vote/YesGran - No/RIPGrandad - No/RIPMother-in-law - No/RIPMum - No/NoStepdad - No/NoDad - No/ undecidedStepmum No/undecidedBrother - Yes/YesSister-in-law Yes/YesSister - Yes/Yes Last time was: Spoilt - 1Yes - 5No - 8Did not vote - 2Undecided - 0 Provisional votes for Indyref2: Spoilt - 0Yes - 9No - 2Will not vote - 3 deceasedUndecided - 2 The only votes for No were from the only two who voted for Brexit.The EU vote for me was the final straw. Mum = wid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: ^^^^terrific post^^^^^ i.e. he gave his head a wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 hours ago, DrewDon said: I voted 'No' in 2014 - albeit with no great enthusiasm. Whilst the Brexit vote was perhaps the final straw, as I mentioned on another thread, elements of my constitutional and political thinking have changed sufficiently in the interim that I would very likely have considered myself pro-independence by now even if the EU referendum had gone my way. I do regret my 2014 vote, truth be told, and if I could wind back the clock I would vote 'Yes', but I was doing what I thought was right and best at the time, even if I now consider my vote to be misguided; it seems like I will get an opportunity to rectify it much sooner than I had envisaged, thankfully. My vote is only one in literally millions, though. I'm hopefully well positioned to talk to some of my anti-independence friends and family members about my journey to 'Yes', especially because my opinion didn't just change on the morning of the 24th of June. Ultimately, though, the switch of position has to come from within the individual; when I think of my thought process that led to my change of heart on the issue, it came about because I was introspective and willing to challenge my own opinions - and admit to myself that I might have made a mistake. If enough soft 'No' voters are willing to engage in a similar process, and enough 'Yes' people engage constructively, respectfully and openly with them, we can hopefully get the result we want this time. Superb post. It's tremendous to have you aboard x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think last time's soft Nos are likely to be the deciding factor. I guess the path of supposed least resistance can seem attractive sometimes. It doesn't exist this time - there is no "do nothing" option. We either take the chance with all the admitted unknowns independence will entail, or we hitch ourselves to May's clown car going over the Brexit cliff with just as many unknowns, and accept another couple of decades of Tory hegemony and a UK slipping into a sullen isolationism we didn't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 hours ago, bob the tank said: Yes then, yes now, yes always. 11 hours ago, Jamaldo said: Which one are you? I wis gonnae ask that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Voted yes but probably not voting next time. Don't want to vote no but I can't bring myself to vote yes to the EU membership. I want independence and the Scottish pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, kilbowie2002 said: I think it would be a whole lot different being independent within the EU, we wouldn't see our resources used as a bargaining chip to suit London for a start. I understand why some people don't like the EU, but honestly think it's in Scotland's interest to be independent within it or at the least in the free trade area. If we went into EFTA we could have opt outs, say for Fisheries and Agriculture, like Norway has. That would go down well with some Eurosceptics, with a promise to hold a referendum before applying for full membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If we went into EFTA we could have opt outs, say for Fisheries and Agriculture, like Norway has. That would go down well with some Eurosceptics, with a promise to hold a referendum before applying for full membership. Exactly. We will be able to negotiate our own relationship with Europe, ensuring we get the best deals for our important sectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Voted yes but probably not voting next time. Don't want to vote no but I can't bring myself to vote yes to the EU membership. I want independence and the Scottish pound. 16 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If we went into EFTA we could have opt outs, say for Fisheries and Agriculture, like Norway has. That would go down well with some Eurosceptics, with a promise to hold a referendum before applying for full membership. 5 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Exactly. We will be able to negotiate our own relationship with Europe, ensuring we get the best deals for our important sectors. One step at a time. Independence then referendum on EU and NATO and anything else of national importance. Let the people decide and no the politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Voted yes but probably not voting next time. Don't want to vote no but I can't bring myself to vote yes to the EU membership. I want independence and the Scottish pound. I'd imagine after a successful referendum an election would be called. At this point manifestos would set out the respective parties' policies on Europe. The 'Yes' campaign can't and won't guarantee EU membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I was yes in 2014 but only after weeks of personal anguish.Independence is ultimately where I'd like to see us but the SNP white paper didn't fill me with huge confidence back then. In my mind it was flimsy at best. I voted with my heart in the end as I didn't see the chance ever coming along again. I suspect this time round will be deja vu. I just really hope this time round the SNP get a grip of a proper economic plan.In short, I'm hoping to go from a sceptical yes to a balls out let's fucking do this yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Most of the people I know are planning to vote the same way as 2014, except for EU citizens. My friend's wife is Polish. All her friends and family voted No last time but are planning to vote Yes next time. I know a couple of folk who voted No / Remain and are a hell of a lot softer and more likely to vote Yes than they were in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 20 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Voted yes but probably not voting next time. Don't want to vote no but I can't bring myself to vote yes to the EU membership. I want independence and the Scottish pound. We could always have another referendum after a while but if we f**k up the next referendum we'll be stuck in the union with these incompetent arseholes in charge for the next thirty years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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