DigOutYourSoul Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I was yes in 2014 but only after weeks of personal anguish.Independence is ultimately where I'd like to see us but the SNP white paper didn't fill me with huge confidence back then. In my mind it was flimsy at best. I voted with my heart in the end as I didn't see the chance ever coming along again. I suspect this time round will be deja vu. I just really hope this time round the SNP get a grip of a proper economic plan.In short, I'm hoping to go from a sceptical yes to a balls out let's fucking do this yes. This is essentially me as well, however I voted No in 2014 - mainly due to the complete lack of reasonable economics in the White Paper. Whenever I questioned 'yes' Friends about the oil price predictions, for example, I was simply told I was scaremongering. Current prices are literally half of what was used in the white paper calculations. They need a credible, nailed down economic plan and concrete assurances around EU membership for this to work for me. If that happens, I'll move from a No to a sceptical Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weesiecodal Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 16/03/2017 at 00:05, DrewDon said: I do regret my 2014 vote, truth be told, and if I could wind back the clock I would vote 'Yes', but I was doing what I thought was right and best at the time, even if I now consider my vote to be misguided Your whole post was excellent and very honest. This bit, though, is a shame. It must be horrible to feel that way, but you said you were doing what you thought was right and best at the time, which is exactly the same as all of us. We all vote for what we think is best for us, our families and our country. We all have different perspectives, different information sources and different influences - which is exactly the reason why nobody's* opinion should be belittled or ridiculed *except for raging nutters on both sides who would vote yes/no regardless of evidence obv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, DigOutYourSoul said: They need a credible, nailed down economic plan and concrete assurances around EU membership for this to work for me. If that happens, I'll move from a No to a sceptical Yes. Who needs to put this plan together? SNP? The Greens? What would make it credible? Better yet, who would be able to pronounce it credible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Weesiecodal said: Your whole post was excellent and very honest. This bit, though, is a shame. It must be horrible to feel that way, but you said you were doing what you thought was right and best at the time, which is exactly the same as all of us. We all vote for what we think is best for us, our families and our country. We all have different perspectives, different information sources and different influences - which is exactly the reason why nobody's* opinion should be belittled or ridiculed *except for raging nutters on both sides who would vote yes/no regardless of evidence obv I'm a 'raging nutter' on the YES side regardless of the evidence. For me it's no the economic argument or any other. It's just the absolute certainty that we as a country MUST stand on our own two feet whatever the outcome. We must make the decisions in Edinburgh for good or for ill. But it's got tae be our choice and no an English-packed Westminster who make the decisions for us. If Ireland and New Zealand (and any other country with a lesser similar population than Scotland) can do it, why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weesiecodal Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: I'm a 'raging nutter' on the YES side regardless of the evidence. For me it's no the economic argument or any other. It's just the absolute certainty that we as a country MUST stand on our own two feet whatever the outcome. We must make the decisions in Edinburgh for good or for ill. But it's got tae be our choice and no an English-packed Westminster who make the decisions for us. If Ireland and New Zealand (and any other country with a lesser similar population than Scotland) can do it, why can't we? Yeah. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't disagree with any of what you've said. When I said "raging nutters" I meant the idiots who shout each other down with no sensible arguments, the kind who actually just turn folk away rather than make them see the sense in your opinion and persuade them to change their mind. They do nothing for the debate. There's nothing wrong with having strong, unshakeable convictions, but the only way to win is to make the other side see the positives, not screeching abuse just because they have a different way of seeing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Weesiecodal said: Yeah. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't disagree with any of what you've said. When I said "raging nutters" I meant the idiots who shout each other down with no sensible arguments, the kind who actually just turn folk away rather than make them see the sense in your opinion and persuade them to change their mind. They do nothing for the debate. There's nothing wrong with having strong, unshakeable convictions, but the only way to win is to make the other side see the positives, not screeching abuse just because they have a different way of seeing things. I ken whit ye mean - it's called exasperation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yes/na unless they do postal from expats then i cant vote next time. Yes man down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I voted yes last time, i havent decided where ill vote this time yet. But either way May saying its not the right time is a slap in the face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 12:43, Suspect Device said: Voted yes but probably not voting next time. Don't want to vote no but I can't bring myself to vote yes to the EU membership. I want independence and the Scottish pound. What way do you think takes you closer to your ultimate ambition? If it means anything, and we will know more in 18 months, I think EFTA is becoming an option that is gaining more traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I know this is off topic, but I have still never seen a reasonable explanation as to why P&Brs are so out of step with the populus as a whole on the issue of Independence. Don't get me wrong, i love it but it's a bit strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, weirdcal said: Yes/na unless they do postal from expats then i cant vote next time. Yes man down I'll vote twice if ye want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I know this is off topic, but I have still never seen a reasonable explanation as to why P&Brs are so out of step with the populus as a whole on the issue of Independence. Don't get me wrong, i love it but it's a bit strange. It's cos we're all sound as f**k and the Great British Population are fucking idiots, almost to a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I know this is off topic, but I have still never seen a reasonable explanation as to why P&Brs are so out of step with the populus as a whole on the issue of Independence. Don't get me wrong, i love it but it's a bit strange. Perhaps it's a comparatively younger mix on here plus many of the britnat persuasion would naturally gravitate to sites like rangers media / follow follow etc where there will be more like minded individuals to discuss being the people n marching and saluting the maj ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 To take an active interest in smaller football teams is likely to suggest an interest in community and the ability to take pride in modest achievements. The already existing dislike for England that being a Scottish football fan gives you probably doesn't hurt the independence cause either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, dogmc said: Perhaps it's a comparatively younger mix on here plus many of the britnat persuasion would naturally gravitate to sites like rangers media / follow follow etc where there will be more like minded individuals to discuss being the people n marching and saluting the maj ?? thanks 11 minutes ago, RussellAnderson said: To take an active interest in smaller football teams is likely to suggest an interest in community and the ability to take pride in modest achievements. The already existing dislike for England that being a Scottish football fan gives you probably doesn't hurt the independence cause either. ABE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 28 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I know this is off topic, but I have still never seen a reasonable explanation as to why P&Brs are so out of step with the populus as a whole on the issue of Independence. Don't get me wrong, i love it but it's a bit strange. Younger demographic (more pro-Yes). Largely male (more pro-Yes). Probably a much higher percentage of 'Scottish-born' (more pro-Yes). I think those three are pretty solid reasons, backed up by the referendum voting analysis. More speculative reasons. Football fans are more used to, comfortable with and in favour of Scotland being 'independent' within football. Stands to reason that probably carries over a bit into politics. If you like football and choose to take an active interest in Scottish football in particular, you're unlikely to be as affected by the 'Scottish cringe' that clearly does affect a section of unionists - they'd be more likely to take an active interest in the English Premiership IMO. There's also a few interesting things that got thrown up like 'Atheists were heavily in favour of Yes'. P&B seems to be much more atheist than the population at large, anecdotally. Prevailing view seems to be very anti-monarchy on here too although that could be a chicken and egg thing. Could also be that unionists may be more likely to steer clear of the Politics forum as they may feel a little 'under siege' from the heavy Yes-majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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