How would/ will you vote?

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, Paco said:

I always find it strange how people can decide at this stage how to vote, with no information either way and quite literally years before the vote. But that's identity politics for you.

There's valid arguments on both sides (democratic deficit being the clearest one for Yes). Nearer the time it should be clearer where we will be either side of the outcome on the EU and currency. That'll most likely ultimately decide my vote, alongside a few other arguments (mostly economy, but also something that wasn't an issue last time which is the border, if we want to be in the EU bordering England outwith).

Plenty time for these to be cleared up, or perhaps as is usually the case with referendums, muddled further. 

I'm not sure if that's a serious point or just a jibe.  If it's suppossed to be a serious point it is not particularly well informed.  For many folk, it's not about 'identity politics' but about democracy.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that we will be significantly worse off economically than at present.  Equally I don't buy into the view that we will be significantly better off.  Therefore whilst the economic argument will understandably be pushed heavily by both sides but is not the crux of the issue for me.

I want a real say in the sort of society I live in.  Anyone who sees Scotland as a country rather than a region must recognise the democratic deficit that has existed since the end of WWII.  It is only through independence that we will address that democratic deficit.

[ICTChris]

22 minutes ago, kilbowie2002 said:

If there's a no the wife and I have decided to look into moving to Canada, have no interest in being 'british' nor staying to make buttons when the NHS is privatised. But im pretty confident it will be a yes this time.

I hope it all goes to shit so my wife and I can move to Cyprus, far away from any political division and disputes over borders.

[cal234ey]

Wasn't sure at the start of the last one but committed to yes with months to go. Won't get a vote this time which is a shame as I'd vote yes again.

[Boostin' Kev]

For various reasons, last time round I was No to begin with and didn't see any solid reason from my point of view to change my mind throughout the course of the campaign. 

This time around I'm a lot more open to the idea but my stipulations for voting Yes remain the same.  Imo the ideals of the population having increased democracy and control are ones that I agree with, in daily life I think everyone should take more responsibility for their present and future however there has to be some sort of plan with a reasonable amount of fact supporting as to how it's going to work for the nation's future.

For every blinkered voter like Lichtie there will be at least another one or two with half a brain who want to understand beyond a reasonable level of doubt why leaving the UK won't potentially be seriously harmful for Scotland's future.  This is what the success of the Yes campaign will rest upon imo.

[Paco]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I'm not sure if that's a serious point or just a jibe.  If it's suppossed to be a serious point it is not particularly well informed.  For many folk, it's not about 'identity politics' but about democracy.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that we will be significantly worse off economically than at present.  Equally I don't buy into the view that we will be significantly better off.  Therefore whilst the economic argument will understandably be pushed heavily by both sides but is not the crux of the issue for me.

I want a real say in the sort of society I live in.  Anyone who sees Scotland as a country rather than a region must recognise the democratic deficit that has existed since the end of WWII.  It is only through independence that we will address that democratic deficit.

It was neither a serious point nor a jibe. But I certainly think there's an irony about people on here complaining about their older relatives who just won't consider Yes, when they themselves would never consider No.

I entirely agree about the democratic deficit and it should be front and centre of the Yes campaign, with a commitment to a new EU referendum in the event of independence. For me though, it could be outweighed elsewhere (as of this moment the two big ones are EU, currency, slightly less so the economy as I broadly agree with you, and potentially border). I accept for many it can't be, but that's not to say I understand or would encourage it. 

[Colkitto]

The usual Yes from me. 

[doulikefish]

Its a yes from me,best time of my life last time,met some brilliant people had some brilliant laughs cant wait to get back out there

[LongTimeLurker]

41 minutes ago, Paco said:

I always find it strange how people can decide at this stage how to vote, with no information either way and quite literally years before the vote. But that's identity politics for you...

Agreed to an extent, but I think the difference between a soft and a hard Brexit is already clear enough to be able to decide which way to jump if you view things pragmatically. Hard Brexit means a hard border and having a different currency from rUK, if Scotland is going to be in the EU, while rUK isn't even going to have EEA status, because the Solway and Tweed becomes the outer border of the EU's custom union under that scenario. All the emotional appeals in the world and pictures filled with tartan and majestic landscapes are not going to change that from being a shite state of affairs to be in and stumbling into that sort of future on a 51:49 decision is not a recipe for stable politics down the road (what happens if a Unionist majority emerges in the first post-independence parliament?). The SNP really should have stuck to the 55% Yes in the polls for six months yardstick for deciding whether to proceed, but Nicola Sturgeon knows that would split her party, so now it's time to get gubbed on a longshot gamble of a referendum for a second time in five years.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, kilbowie2002 said:

If there's a no the wife and I have decided to look into moving to Canada, have no interest in being 'british' nor staying to make buttons when the NHS is privatised. But im pretty confident it will be a yes this time.

Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out then.

[ilostmyself]

I was a mega Yes last time and I suppose I'm more of a lukewarm Yes now. Can't put my finger on why to be honest.

My girlfriend is from Spain so I'm definitely in the Brexit=Emigration camp as she is quite passionate about the EU and if I'm on the wrong side of 3 straight referendums then I'm clearly not in tune with the rest of the country and might as well find somewhere to stay that fits my political opinions.

While the democratic deficit is obviously the point for this referendum to focus on, the expected terms of Brexit will be massive in swinging the vote one way or another.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, kilbowie2002 said:

They could very well have been polling those numbers privately, who knows? I'm pretty certain we'll negotiate a deal with England re trade, they rely too much on our resources for it not to be in their interests.

If Scotland plans on being fast tracked into the EU, then the negotiation on that is between the EU and rUK and not between Scotland and the rUK.

[Skyline Drifter]

I'll vote no. There's no doubt about that, but I do feel differently about it this time. I believe in the UK and I'm not interested in the "We dinna want governed by the English" arguments. I would probably be less bothered about being on the losing side if it happened this time though and I certainly won't throw my toys out of the pram and move away. I'll just make the best of it. I would have preferred to stay in the EU and if the middle England Brexit vote leads to us splitting the Union then so be it. I don't believe we'll be in the EU either way now though and it remains to be seen which path is better. We'll be better informed when and if it ever gets to another referendum. I don't think there's any way I'll be voting "yes" though.

And I'll fully expect all the local activists who whine about being unfairly governed from Westminster to begin a campaign for Dumfries and Galloway independence from the rest of Scotland if D&G votes strongly no again but "gets dragged out of the UK against her will".

[renton]

Was Yes in '14, will be Yes again. The principle arguments for doing so, that the only way to reliably control how our nation develops, socially and economically is through self government are only more relevant now than the first referendum. Since then Scotland has been exposed to the full depth of it's inability to influence this Union of "equals" both through the wholly inadequate Scotland act, and Brexit above all else. Scotland's economic performance will never reach it's potential when married to fiscal and financial policies designed to benefit the S.E of England, who's demographics and tax base are so divergent from ours.

[DI Bruce Robertson]

@DA Baracus likes this post.

[Jaggy Snake]

I was a no last time and will remain so until the Yes campaign provide legitimate plans for how we will re-enter the EU (with the EU publically agreeing to said plans), currency (which would likely become the Euro) and how we will continue to deal with England, both in terms of business and immigration (if we are in the EU and they are not).

I don’t expect to see convincing answers to any of these points but I still expect the ‘yes’ vote to win this time.

[Alert Mongoose]

A clear yes again. I would also encourage Wales, NI and London to do the same. Would also prefer to re-draw the Scottish Border slightly higher up to leave the remaining UK to also include places like Dumfries.

[Wee Willie]

13 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'll vote no. There's no doubt about that, but I do feel differently about it this time. I believe in the UK and I'm not interested in the "We dinna want governed by the English" arguments. I would probably be less bothered about being on the losing side if it happened this time though and I certainly won't throw my toys out of the pram and move away. I'll just make the best of it. I would have preferred to stay in the EU and if the middle England Brexit vote leads to us splitting the Union then so be it. I don't believe we'll be in the EU either way now though and it remains to be seen which path is better. We'll be better informed when and if it ever gets to another referendum. I don't think there's any way I'll be voting "yes" though.

And I'll fully expect all the local activists who whine about being unfairly governed from Westminster to begin a campaign for Dumfries and Galloway independence from the rest of Scotland if D&G votes strongly no again but "gets dragged out of the UK against her will".

So you are happy "tae be governed by the English" 
you don't want Scotland standing on her own two feet with the buck stopping at Edinbugh.
You much prefer to be governed by a vast majority of English MPs and let them make all the decisions regarding Scotlands place in the world.
Good for you 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:

I was a no last time and will remain so until the Yes campaign provide legitimate plans for how we will re-enter the EU (with the EU publically agreeing to said plans), currency (which would likely become the Euro) and how we will continue to deal with England, both in terms of business and immigration (if we are in the EU and they are not).

 

I don’t expect to see convincing answers to any of these points but I still expect the ‘yes’ vote to win this time.

 

SNP need to have far more clarity this time around, but you can't expect an agreed deal between Scotland and rUK until after independence. Westminster will deny any possibility of a rational settlement. All the SNP can do is put forward a credible plan. Equally the EU will not want to be seen as trying to influence the referendum by suggesting a frictionless path to membership or association before the vote. 

[mizfit]

I changed from a massive no to a soft yes by the time of the last one, on the day of the vote I was still struggling to understand my vote, my family were all in the no camp, and I had to keep reminding myself the vote has nothing to do with following my family's view, but to decide for myself.

During the EU referendum result, I was in Ibiza, woke up incredibly hungover to the news we'd left, and decided I was still going to vote yes if we ever got another chance or option to do so.

[Wee Willie]

11 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:

I was a no last time and will remain so until the Yes campaign provide legitimate plans for how we will re-enter the EU (with the EU publically agreeing to said plans), currency (which would likely become the Euro) and how we will continue to deal with England, both in terms of business and immigration (if we are in the EU and they are not).

 

I don’t expect to see convincing answers to any of these points but I still expect the ‘yes’ vote to win this time.

 

You want your cake and tae eat it as well.
Nobody in their right mind can predict what will happen in a Yes/No vote in a referendum.
Whether it be Brexit and/or Independence.
Once the deed is done we can then vote according to our preferences.
Hopefully a more fairer and just society.
That's all it is - hope