Scottish Lib Dem Conference

[Cairn Terrier]

5 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Serbia is absolutely vilified for its nationalism and always has been. Terrible example.

Is that one of these whoosh thingys?

[The Chlamydia Kid]

Is that one of these whoosh thingys?

We've already established I never read it properly. [emoji106]

[DI Bruce Robertson]

I'd call them a desperate shower but they've probably not paid their water bill.
There is a perfectly coherent case against liberal forms of nationalism that cosmopolitans can make. That coherent case is not made when you suggest that an independence movement which:
1. Is led by people who favour pooling sovereignty at a continental level
2. Defines the conditions in which someone can participate in the political process more permissively than the parent state (by allowing EU citizens to vote)
3. Proposes a more inclusive definition of citizenship eligibility than its parent state has
4. Even sought to pool monetary sovereignty with the UK last time around
Is somehow more similar to Farage, Trump or Le Pen than they are to British cosmopolitans.

The fundamental fact of Scottish politics is that two nationalisms exist, and both of them have liberal, cultural, political and ethnic adherents. The existence of Scottish nationalism is not what "divides" our families and our communities and it's not the holding of a referendum that's going to make that division more entrenched. It's the underlying reality that this is an issue on which people profoundly disagree and with respect to which the consequences of picking the wrong answer is potentially catastrophic.
"No second referendum in any circumstances" is itself a position that is designed to, and which has the effect of, dividing Scotland. The Unionist parties are not interested in understanding why almost half of the Scottish electorate disagrees with them. This behaviour is mirrored in parts of the SNP and Yes movement, but in the months after the Brexit vote it has been far less so.
These parties don't want to unite Scotland; they want to unite unionist Scotland. And that's the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics in a nutshell. Knowing that there is an alternative to embracing this constitutionalisation of politics, with their own fucking sister party actually doing just as well if not better as a non-aligned cross-community entity across the Irish sea, you'd think the Liberal Democrats in Scotland would be alert to this difficulty.
But no. They're just delusional idiots who will do nothing to stop Brexit and who by trying to deny the Scottish people the right to reassess where they should prioritise cooperation manage to piss off even those who would otherwise go along with about 90% of their policy platform.
Hell mend them.
And no, I wasn't at this conference, because I'm not a member of the Lib Dems any more and haven't been for several months now. I can say with considerable confidence that I won't be joining another political party any time soon, partly for professional reasons. Not being tied to one is very liberating.

Well, Ad Lib, good post.
I've oftentimes disagreed with your stance on certain things, and it appears (to me), that a lot of that was tied to your membership of the Lib Dems, it appears you didn't leave the Lib Dems, they left you.
Good luck in your future career outwith politics.
Given your previous, for wordplay and the minutiae of legal points, I'm sure you will eventually become a fantastic QC.
All the best.

[DublinMagyar]

Well, Ad Lib, good post.
I've oftentimes disagreed with your stance on certain things, and it appears (to me), that a lot of that was tied to your membership of the Lib Dems, it appears you didn't leave the Lib Dems, they left you.
Good luck in your future career outwith politics.
Given your previous, for wordplay and the minutiae of legal points, I'm sure you will eventually become a fantastic QC.
All the best.

The more modern term is Quality ASSURANCE. I'm sure he'll do just fine

[DI Bruce Robertson]

The more modern term is Quality ASSURANCE. I'm sure he'll do just fine

? Is this a whoosh? Just a little drunk, so not sure....

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, Ad Lib said:

I'd call them a desperate shower but they've probably not paid their water bill.

There is a perfectly coherent case against liberal forms of nationalism that cosmopolitans can make. That coherent case is not made when you suggest that an independence movement which:

1. Is led by people who favour pooling sovereignty at a continental level

2. Defines the conditions in which someone can participate in the political process more permissively than the parent state (by allowing EU citizens to vote)

3. Proposes a more inclusive definition of citizenship eligibility than its parent state has

4. Even sought to pool monetary sovereignty with the UK last time around

Is somehow more similar to Farage, Trump or Le Pen than they are to British cosmopolitans.

The fundamental fact of Scottish politics is that two nationalisms exist, and both of them have liberal, cultural, political and ethnic adherents. The existence of Scottish nationalism is not what "divides" our families and our communities and it's not the holding of a referendum that's going to make that division more entrenched. It's the underlying reality that this is an issue on which people profoundly disagree and with respect to which the consequences of picking the wrong answer is potentially catastrophic.

"No second referendum in any circumstances" is itself a position that is designed to, and which has the effect of, dividing Scotland. The Unionist parties are not interested in understanding why almost half of the Scottish electorate disagrees with them. This behaviour is mirrored in parts of the SNP and Yes movement, but in the months after the Brexit vote it has been far less so.

These parties don't want to unite Scotland; they want to unite unionist Scotland. And that's the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics in a nutshell. Knowing that there is an alternative to embracing this constitutionalisation of politics, with their own fucking sister party actually doing just as well if not better as a non-aligned cross-community entity across the Irish sea, you'd think the Liberal Democrats in Scotland would be alert to this difficulty.

But no. They're just delusional idiots who will do nothing to stop Brexit and who by trying to deny the Scottish people the right to reassess where they should prioritise cooperation manage to piss off even those who would otherwise go along with about 90% of their policy platform.

Hell mend them.

And no, I wasn't at this conference, because I'm not a member of the Lib Dems any more and haven't been for several months now. I can say with considerable confidence that I won't be joining another political party any time soon, partly for professional reasons. Not being tied to one is very liberating.

Guid post 

 

[DublinMagyar]

? Is this a whoosh? Just a little drunk, so not sure....

It is now

Enjoy your beers

[invergowrie arab]

2 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

I'd call them a desperate shower but they've probably not paid their water bill.

There is a perfectly coherent case against liberal forms of nationalism that cosmopolitans can make. That coherent case is not made when you suggest that an independence movement which:

1. Is led by people who favour pooling sovereignty at a continental level

2. Defines the conditions in which someone can participate in the political process more permissively than the parent state (by allowing EU citizens to vote)

3. Proposes a more inclusive definition of citizenship eligibility than its parent state has

4. Even sought to pool monetary sovereignty with the UK last time around

Is somehow more similar to Farage, Trump or Le Pen than they are to British cosmopolitans.

The fundamental fact of Scottish politics is that two nationalisms exist, and both of them have liberal, cultural, political and ethnic adherents. The existence of Scottish nationalism is not what "divides" our families and our communities and it's not the holding of a referendum that's going to make that division more entrenched. It's the underlying reality that this is an issue on which people profoundly disagree and with respect to which the consequences of picking the wrong answer is potentially catastrophic.

"No second referendum in any circumstances" is itself a position that is designed to, and which has the effect of, dividing Scotland. The Unionist parties are not interested in understanding why almost half of the Scottish electorate disagrees with them. This behaviour is mirrored in parts of the SNP and Yes movement, but in the months after the Brexit vote it has been far less so.

These parties don't want to unite Scotland; they want to unite unionist Scotland. And that's the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics in a nutshell. Knowing that there is an alternative to embracing this constitutionalisation of politics, with their own fucking sister party actually doing just as well if not better as a non-aligned cross-community entity across the Irish sea, you'd think the Liberal Democrats in Scotland would be alert to this difficulty.

But no. They're just delusional idiots who will do nothing to stop Brexit and who by trying to deny the Scottish people the right to reassess where they should prioritise cooperation manage to piss off even those who would otherwise go along with about 90% of their policy platform.

Hell mend them.

And no, I wasn't at this conference, because I'm not a member of the Lib Dems any more and haven't been for several months now. I can say with considerable confidence that I won't be joining another political party any time soon, partly for professional reasons. Not being tied to one is very liberating.

^^ will be leading up siol nan gaidheal within a year type post ^^

[DI Bruce Robertson]

So, Ad Lib, where (if anywhere) do your political views most suit now?
Are you likely to vote in the next local elections? If so, who for? I'd be the first to admit that these candidates shouldn't be voted for along party lines...
So, following that, how would you intend to vote?
A. Indy ref II
B. Westminster elections
C. Holyrood elections

Obviously, voting intentions are a private matter, but, if you are willing to share, I'd be most appreciative.

[Wee Willie]

22 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

So, Ad Lib, where (if anywhere) do your political views most suit now?
Are you likely to vote in the next local elections? If so, who for? I'd be the first to admit that these candidates shouldn't be voted for along party lines...
So, following that, how would you intend to vote?
A. Indy ref II
B. Westminster elections
C. Holyrood elections

Obviously, voting intentions are a private matter, but, if you are willing to share, I'd be most appreciative.

A. Aye
B. SNP
C. SNP

and that's me sorted.

[ChrisMFCfan1886]

Spoke on the UK/EU debate as well as the budget debate today, proudly backed independence and was one of a small minority to vote against the motion, however it was all worth it to see ACHs face like thunder when I opposed the motion

[DI Bruce Robertson]

Spoke on the UK/EU debate as well as the budget debate today, proudly backed independence and was one of a small minority to vote against the motion, however it was all worth it to see ACHs face like thunder when I opposed the motion

Well done, how did the 5 members on the floor react?

[Glenconner]

4 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

^^ will be leading up siol nan gaidheal within a year type post ^^

Is it still on the go?

[Ad Lib]

1 hour ago, ChrisMFCfan1886 said:

Spoke on the UK/EU debate as well as the budget debate today, proudly backed independence and was one of a small minority to vote against the motion, however it was all worth it to see ACHs face like thunder when I opposed the motion

ACH is, I would say, about 25-30% of the final reason I had for leaving the party.

[Ad Lib]

3 hours ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

So, Ad Lib, where (if anywhere) do your political views most suit now?
Are you likely to vote in the next local elections? If so, who for? I'd be the first to admit that these candidates shouldn't be voted for along party lines...
So, following that, how would you intend to vote?
A. Indy ref II
B. Westminster elections
C. Holyrood elections

Obviously, voting intentions are a private matter, but, if you are willing to share, I'd be most appreciative.

Right now?

I think it would be a bad idea to hold a referendum before Brexit happens unless there is a guaranteed accelerated accession for Scotland. If they hold it before March 2019 I would probably abstain because of that.

In a referendum following a Hard Brexit in, say, 2021, I would probably vote Yes, but it would depend on the fiscal position.

But as things stand I probably won't get a vote in the next referendum.

In Westminster elections I live in a Glasgow seat that is safe SNP. Who I would vote for would depend entirely on the candidates who stand. My current MP has been reasonably good in response to several local and national issues I've contacted her about.

As for Holyrood, I have no strong attachment to any of them except to be quite militantly anti-Tories given their post Brexit vote behaviour. It would depend on the candidates really.

I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for in May to be honest. Probably any party that commits to crack down on FirstGlasgow for their shit bus services.

[welshbairn]

23 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

 

But as things stand I probably won't get a vote in the next referendum.

 

What did you do, bad boy? Appeal to the ECHR while there's still time, even convicts should get a vote imo.

[Ad Lib]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

What did you do, bad boy? Appeal to the ECHR while there's still time, even convicts should get a vote imo.

Depending on your perspective, one might mount a case of treason

[Londonwell]

45 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Right now?

I think it would be a bad idea to hold a referendum before Brexit happens unless there is a guaranteed accelerated accession for Scotland. If they hold it before March 2019 I would probably abstain because of that.

In a referendum following a Hard Brexit in, say, 2021, I would probably vote Yes, but it would depend on the fiscal position.

But as things stand I probably won't get a vote in the next referendum.

In Westminster elections I live in a Glasgow seat that is safe SNP. Who I would vote for would depend entirely on the candidates who stand. My current MP has been reasonably good in response to several local and national issues I've contacted her about.

As for Holyrood, I have no strong attachment to any of them except to be quite militantly anti-Tories given their post Brexit vote behaviour. It would depend on the candidates really.

I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for in May to be honest. Probably any party that commits to crack down on FirstGlasgow for their shit bus services.

Bus w****r

[Fide]

2 hours ago, ChrisMFCfan1886 said:

Spoke on the UK/EU debate as well as the budget debate today, proudly backed independence and was one of a small minority to vote against the motion, however it was all worth it to see ACHs face like thunder when I opposed the motion

This, I believe, is that arsewipe ACH during your speech.  Check the face!

 

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Fide said:

This, I believe, is that arsewipe ACH during your speech.  Check the face!

 

Any link to the speech?