Attitudes, why do they change?

[Dindeleux]

4 hours ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

 

Something that's been bothering me for ages, last 10 minutes if I'm honest, but I started thinking about the changes in attitude to certain things, and whether it's likely we regress in attitudes as (in my opinion) we have progressed in my lifetime, is it a natural cycle?

 

Attitudes that I can think of that have progressed in my time.

 

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

 

Homophobia- this is the thing that got me thinking on this, it's now socially unacceptable & quite rightly so, to have homophobic attitudes, indeed as recently as the 80's, many saw it as socially ok to not only be homophobic but to also espouse these feelings publicly. Yet, in times past, Roman Empire etc, it was completely normal & acceptable - why did this change?

 

Drink Driving- now completely unacceptable, but fairly recently, ok.

 

Will we ever regress back to the social norms seen in my lifetime, and if not, why?

 

 

Think this post says a lot about you as a person to be honest.

[D.A.F.C]

I think that racism and homophobia still exists but to combat it there's too many knee jerk or counter discriminatory measures.

I don't get why you should fill out a positive discrimination form when applying for jobs. Surely if a company isn't racist then there is no need for this? I don't tend to think about race until you get this flung in your face. Does that mean that a company is then deliberately starting to favour minorities or disabled people over others? Isn't that racist or discriminatory?

Another example I should the recent knicker wetting at the Oscars and Stormzy at the Brits. Could it not be that there wasn't any films, actors or music worthy of winning? 

I realise it's a tricky subject and there is obvious examples of bigoted or racist organisations like the police in America who need positive discrimination but employing people to meet quotas is racist and totally stupid.

[deej]

I think that racism and homophobia still exists but to combat it there's too many knee jerk or counter discriminatory measures.
I don't get why you should fill out a positive discrimination form when applying for jobs. Surely if a company isn't racist then there is no need for this? I don't tend to think about race until you get this flung in your face. Does that mean that a company is then deliberately starting to favour minorities or disabled people over others? Isn't that racist or discriminatory?
Another example I should the recent knicker wetting at the Oscars and Stormzy at the Brits. Could it not be that there wasn't any films, actors or music worthy of winning? 
I realise it's a tricky subject and there is obvious examples of bigoted or racist organisations like the police in America who need positive discrimination but employing people to meet quotas is racist and totally stupid.

Similarly with the recent (ish) fuss about how there wasn't enough black managers in British football.. Didn't seem to occur to folk that the black managers that had held jobs had been proven shite and hence sacked.

[hellbhoy]

Evolution of the species imo, as we struggle to be a civilised society things that were sociably acceptable are now becoming slander/insults and the like as we become more and more integrated. Gone are the days of small communities that were isolated from other communities and had become what some would regard as backward or non progressive.

As a worldwide society we are beginning to break down those small minded attitudes that once were the norm in isolated communities and were acceptable at the time.

What bothers me is anyone or any group can now use any phrase, gesture, word and action as an insult/slander etc and go on a crusade to have said objection to be publicly made into an offence or hate crime.

In some cases is just politically correctness gone mad and in more offensive cases they have been deemed quite rightly a hate crime etc.

We are now becoming a Nanny state where anything you say is monitored and questioned, and I mean anything especially on social media sites like P&B. All good in the end but at what cost?

Are our civil rights to free speech being slowly eradicated to the point where you can't even say what you feel at any given time?, I mean here that even just calling someone a stupid idiot in years to come will be deemed as a hate crime and punishable by the law because we as a society "apparently" are supposed to be progressing to a point where we aren't allowed to express our anger in words because that could then become a punishable offence.

Where do we draw the line of acceptability?, what really should be deemed as an offence or hate crime? Will we just keep making more and more things unacceptable just because a few people/minority suddenly take offence to a phrase or word just because they don't like it to the point were you can't even open your mouth without taking a 20 second pause on whet you are about to say?

 

 

[Alert Mongoose]

I think that racism and homophobia still exists but to combat it there's too many knee jerk or counter discriminatory measures.
I don't get why you should fill out a positive discrimination form when applying for jobs. Surely if a company isn't racist then there is no need for this?

Unfortunately there are generations of inbuilt discriminatory attitudes and legacy issues. These will take time to feed through the system.

[Sergeant Wilson]

54 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

I think that racism and homophobia still exists but to combat it there's too many knee jerk or counter discriminatory measures.

I don't get why you should fill out a positive discrimination form when applying for jobs. Surely if a company isn't racist then there is no need for this? I don't tend to think about race until you get this flung in your face. Does that mean that a company is then deliberately starting to favour minorities or disabled people over others? Isn't that racist or discriminatory?

Another example I should the recent knicker wetting at the Oscars and Stormzy at the Brits. Could it not be that there wasn't any films, actors or music worthy of winning? 

I realise it's a tricky subject and there is obvious examples of bigoted or racist organisations like the police in America who need positive discrimination but employing people to meet quotas is racist and totally stupid.

What is a positive discrimination form? Do you mean the monitoring form attached to applications? If done properly that has no part in the current recruitment process. It's used to monitor work force trends and inform future recruitment and diversity policy.

[Sergeant Wilson]

45 minutes ago, deej said:

 

 

Similarly with the recent (ish) fuss about how there wasn't enough black managers in British football.. Didn't seem to occur to folk that the black managers that had held jobs had been proven shite and hence sacked.

 

 

The point is given the number of black players, why isn't there a proportionate number of black managers?

[D.A.F.C]

18 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

What is a positive discrimination form? Do you mean the monitoring form attached to applications? If done properly that has no part in the current recruitment process. It's used to monitor work force trends and inform future recruitment and diversity policy.

Thats what I meant, you can look at it two ways. It's a tool to help weed out racist or bigoted selection or a tool that separates people into race and religion.

I have no idea why there's so little black managers in football management likewise why there's zero Asian uk born players you could see why there's accusations. Except for Barnes, he was just shit.

[Hillonearth]

27 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The point is given the number of black players, why isn't there a proportionate number of black managers?

Goes all the way through sport, that one. There are currently only five black head coaches in the NFL's 32 teams...nearly 70% of NFL players are black...

[Sergeant Wilson]

21 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Thats what I meant, you can look at it two ways. It's a tool to help weed out racist or bigoted selection or a tool that separates people into race and religion.

I have no idea why there's so little black managers in football management likewise why there's zero Asian uk born players you could see why there's accusations. Except for Barnes, he was just shit.

Again, if done properly, the monitoring form is removed before any one involved in the decision making process sees an application. It's then used anonymously to monitor trends and inform policy. It's not a means to identify racists working in recruitment.

[D.A.F.C]

Ok, seems like I've got this mixed up with positive discmination. I also didn't know how it was used and that it was removed before the interviewers see candidates.

I heard on the radio last week someone sent out the same C.V. but changed the traditional English name to an Islamic one and got two thirds less replies. If a company or individual wants to they can still discriminate I guess?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/candidates-with-muslimsounding-names-three-times-more-likely-to-be-passed-over-for-jobs-a3459141.html

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, D.A.F.C said:

Ok, seems like I've got this mixed up with positive discmination. I also didn't know how it was used and that it was removed before the interviewers see candidates.

I heard on the radio last week someone sent out the same C.V. but changed the traditional English name to an Islamic one and got two thirds less replies. If a company or individual wants to they can still discriminate I guess?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/candidates-with-muslimsounding-names-three-times-more-likely-to-be-passed-over-for-jobs-a3459141.html

 

Some places now do "blind recruitment", where the ID details are removed before forms are sifted. The first you know can be when the interview candidates appear.

Personally, I think you'd be as well adopting the David Brent method by binning half straight away to avoid picking unlucky people.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Some places now do "blind recruitment", where the ID details are removed before forms are sifted. The first you know can be when the interview candidates appear.

Personally, I think you'd be as well adopting the David Brent method by binning half straight away to avoid picking unlucky people.

Why did they rename Personnel to Human Resources? Did people keep spelling it wrong?

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Why did they rename Personnel to Human Resources? Did people keep spelling it wrong?

I'll see your Human Resources, and raise you Business Support.

[The DA]

1 hour ago, hellbhoy said:

Evolution of the species imo, as we struggle to be a civilised society things that were sociably acceptable are now becoming slander/insults and the like as we become more and more integrated. Gone are the days of small communities that were isolated from other communities and had become what some would regard as backward or non progressive.

As a worldwide society we are beginning to break down those small minded attitudes that once were the norm in isolated communities and were acceptable at the time.

What bothers me is anyone or any group can now use any phrase, gesture, word and action as an insult/slander etc and go on a crusade to have said objection to be publicly made into an offence or hate crime.

In some cases is just politically correctness gone mad and in more offensive cases they have been deemed quite rightly a hate crime etc.

We are now becoming a Nanny state where anything you say is monitored and questioned, and I mean anything especially on social media sites like P&B. All good in the end but at what cost?

Are our civil rights to free speech being slowly eradicated to the point where you can't even say what you feel at any given time?, I mean here that even just calling someone a stupid idiot in years to come will be deemed as a hate crime and punishable by the law because we as a society "apparently" are supposed to be progressing to a point where we aren't allowed to express our anger in words because that could then become a punishable offence.

Where do we draw the line of acceptability?, what really should be deemed as an offence or hate crime? Will we just keep making more and more things unacceptable just because a few people/minority suddenly take offence to a phrase or word just because they don't like it to the point were you can't even open your mouth without taking a 20 second pause on whet you are about to say?

 

 

What happens if, 50 years from now, one of us is famous (and dead, of course) but society has decided that picking on Rangers and their fans is morally unjustifiable?  Will our reputations go down in flames?

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I'll see your Human Resources, and raise you Business Support.

Call, with Human Capital Engagement.

[bennett]

They've changed for the better IMO, some of the PC stuff can be a bit annoying at times but you wouldn't turn the clock back.

 

I can't remember the last time I heard anyone using a certain word for a Chinese meal, now it's just " I'm phoning for a Chinese, what do you want?"

Was watching the dam buster's recently and the dugs name wouldn't be tolerated anymore.

Being gay really isn't an issue to most people, I could count on one hand the amount of times it's been a serious issue.

Every generation moves on I suppose.

 

[The_Kincardine]

21 minutes ago, The DA said:

What happens if, 50 years from now, one of us is famous (and dead, of course) but society has decided that picking on Rangers and their fans is morally unjustifiable?  Will our reputations go down in flames?

^^Thinks he has a reputation worth defending

[hellbhoy]

28 minutes ago, The DA said:

What happens if, 50 years from now, one of us is famous (and dead, of course) but society has decided that picking on Rangers and their fans is morally unjustifiable?  Will our reputations go down in flames?

What in hell makes you think there will be a Rangers FC and fans in 50 years time?

One word that has shown the change in attitudes and how language and words can often mean an entirely differing meaning several generations later "Fanny" nowadays this is an insult, slur etc when it had an entirely different meaning well over 100 years ago. Back then it was a common woman's name but somehow has filtered through the populous and time line to become something it was never ever intended to be.

That's why in my opinion somehow generations later that the phrase "Doing a Kinky" on P&B would mean to make a complete and utter arse out of yourself over grammar, punctuation and meaning. We already on P&B have on a knife edge "Done/doing a Tedi" on the future list of banned phrases because it would be associated with pics of young girls. Now I don't mean any offence here or to insult Tedi, it's just to show how we words and phrases can be interpreted or seen as being something else hidden in context as long as people know there is a nasty underlying tone and such.

[MONKMAN]

My attitude towards the **** will never change, they'll be scum until the day either they (again) or I die.