Attitudes, why do they change?

[DI Bruce Robertson]

Something that's been bothering me for ages, last 10 minutes if I'm honest, but I started thinking about the changes in attitude to certain things, and whether it's likely we regress in attitudes as (in my opinion) we have progressed in my lifetime, is it a natural cycle?

 

Attitudes that I can think of that have progressed in my time.

 

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

 

Homophobia- this is the thing that got me thinking on this, it's now socially unacceptable & quite rightly so, to have homophobic attitudes, indeed as recently as the 80's, many saw it as socially ok to not only be homophobic but to also espouse these feelings publicly. Yet, in times past, Roman Empire etc, it was completely normal & acceptable - why did this change?

 

Drink Driving- now completely unacceptable, but fairly recently, ok.

 

Will we ever regress back to the social norms seen in my lifetime, and if not, why?

[Ross.]

Re: Homophobia and quite a lot of what is considered socially acceptable/unacceptable, I think the Victorians have a lot to answer for in the respect?

Drink driving is a funny one. In the UK it is massively frowned upon whereas here it seems much more common, despite the Swiss making a point about being sensible in almost every other decision they make. I know a couple of folk back home who have taken the car home after a few beers and been castigated for it, whereas here it's a case of "He's only had 3 beers, he'll be fine".

[The Minertaur]

6 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

 

Something that's been bothering me for ages, last 10 minutes if I'm honest, but I started thinking about the changes in attitude to certain things, and whether it's likely we regress in attitudes as (in my opinion) we have progressed in my lifetime, is it a natural cycle?

 

Attitudes that I can think of that have progressed in my time.

 

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

 

Homophobia- this is the thing that got me thinking on this, it's now socially unacceptable & quite rightly so, to have homophobic attitudes, indeed as recently as the 80's, many saw it as socially ok to not only be homophobic but to also espouse these feelings publicly. Yet, in times past, Roman Empire etc, it was completely normal & acceptable - why did this change?

 

Drink Driving- now completely unacceptable, but fairly recently, ok.

 

Will we ever regress back to the social norms seen in my lifetime, and if not, why?

No we won't because most people don't want to deal with racist, homophobic drunk drivers.  HTH.

[DA Baracus]

6 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

 

Something that's been bothering me for ages, last 10 minutes if I'm honest, but I started thinking about the changes in attitude to certain things, and whether it's likely we regress in attitudes as (in my opinion) we have progressed in my lifetime, is it a natural cycle?

 

Attitudes that I can think of that have progressed in my time.

 

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

 

Homophobia- this is the thing that got me thinking on this, it's now socially unacceptable & quite rightly so, to have homophobic attitudes, indeed as recently as the 80's, many saw it as socially ok to not only be homophobic but to also espouse these feelings publicly. Yet, in times past, Roman Empire etc, it was completely normal & acceptable - why did this change?

 

Drink Driving- now completely unacceptable, but fairly recently, ok.

 

Will we ever regress back to the social norms seen in my lifetime, and if not, why?

 

Easy answer here; litigation. Dreadful racists and homophobes (and bigots and sexists, although not unsurprisingly you're more likely to hold all such views if you hold one) could get away with their hateful crap. Now they'd be hugely open to not only losing their job and other income sources, but they could very easily be sued for such things.

Plenty of horrible people still hold such views, but they don't air them as publicly. Fortunately plenty of people have genuinely seen such views as unacceptable and have realised the errors of their ways.

Sadly we're seeing a rise in bigoted and racist views, specifically around the issue of immigration.

Also the Roman Empire didn't like homosexuality (it was considered 'un-Roman' and a dereliction of a proper Roman man's duties). It was the ancient Greeks who were in to that.

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

I think people are just as racist as ever, just more careful with what language they use in public, even use freedom of speech arguments when called up on it.

[TheCelt67]

9 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said:

 

Something that's been bothering me for ages, last 10 minutes if I'm honest, but I started thinking about the changes in attitude to certain things, and whether it's likely we regress in attitudes as (in my opinion) we have progressed in my lifetime, is it a natural cycle?

 

Attitudes that I can think of that have progressed in my time.

 

Racism- used to be socially acceptable to be a casual racist - not now.

 

Homophobia- this is the thing that got me thinking on this, it's now socially unacceptable & quite rightly so, to have homophobic attitudes, indeed as recently as the 80's, many saw it as socially ok to not only be homophobic but to also espouse these feelings publicly. Yet, in times past, Roman Empire etc, it was completely normal & acceptable - why did this change?

 

Drink Driving- now completely unacceptable, but fairly recently, ok.

 

Will we ever regress back to the social norms seen in my lifetime, and if not, why?

 

Regarding homophobia, I don't think we've quite reached it being socially unacceptable as there is still those who deem the subject as an insult that's only meant 'as a bit of a laugh'.  'Did you see that bender wearing the pink boots for Chelsea last night?'  'The big poof is on the orange juice tonight' etc etc.  Usually the morons who make these comments usually try hide behind how everything is just far too PC these days.  

[DanMc99]

Just now, welshbairn said:

I think people are just as racist as ever, just more careful with what language they use in public, even use freedom of speech arguments when called up on it.

I think it has reduced BUT there will still be the same people who pass it down from generation to generation and that'll carry on most likely forever

[DI Bruce Robertson]

No we won't because most people don't want to deal with racist, homophobic drunk drivers.  HTH.

Well, that's not really helpful at all.

People in Roman Empirical times completely accepted homosexuality, but more recently it was seen as socially unacceptable.

I agree that nowadays most sane people don't want to deal with the homophobes, racists etc. My question was, for the hard of thinking, if those attitudes won't change, why not?

 

Sorry, I've been corrected and it was the Grecian Empire that found homosexual relationships acceptable, apologies for my mistake.

[ICTChris]

I think racist and homophobic attitudes still exist.  But society develops naturally and organically - more and more black and Asian people moved to the UK and began to integrate then the more difficult it is to be racist.  If you have black friends and colleagues it's harder to hate them or use racist language casually.  The same goes for homosexuality.  Although I think that in terms of homosexuality the AIDS crisis had a big impact on the visibility of gay people - there's always been gay people but the crisis meant there had to be more openness.

Also, developments like media and communications technology allowing people to connect with others, more and more people leaving their home towns for large cities where they could be more open about their orientation etc.  It all has an effect.  Often I think the government is catching up with society when the legislate - not always but often.

 

[Shandon Par]

Racism seems to be more acceptable every day, and is given a gloss by calling it being "concerned about immigration". The US Vice President preaches conversion therapy for homosexuals. The use of "gay" and "retarded" seem to be perfectly acceptable pejoratives in the USA. We have an unelected prime minister who cosies up to Trump. Misogyny seems to be on a vertiginous ascent. 

We're far from being on a linear progression in terms of attitudes. Or, if you're a bigoted, misogynst, racist homophobe (ie "a c**t") then you are probably happy about what you see as a correcting of attitudes. 

In the past, you had to be worthy of listening to (or own a newspaper) if you wanted to get your voice heard. The lack of a quality filter on how information is spread these days perhaps allows unpalatable views to become the norm? 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Also the Roman Empire didn't like homosexuality (it was considered 'un-Roman' and a dereliction of a proper Roman man's duties). It was the ancient Greeks who were in to that.

Complete and utter bollocks. Heterosexuality and homosexuality would have meant absolutely nothing to Romans: they conceived of sexuality in a dominant/submissive frame of reference that was also used by the ancient Greeks.

 

[Romeo]

Attitudes don't change at all.

 

 

 

Actually, they probably do.

[Gaz FFC]

I thought the younger generation were more tolerant of gay men and women and it was seen as everyday now but very recently I seen several teens spray graffiti attacking a gay boy on a close wall.

As for Bigotry I always hoped that would die out fairly soon as we now seem to have more education and less acceptance on this. That was until a lad less than 10 called me and the guys I was playing football with "a bunch of fe#@*n b*****ds" because he wanted to play football on the park we were on.

I truly despair at the waster generation and the offspring they drag up. Not really university material I must say.

[Cerberus]

My attitude to work has always and will always stink.

[DI Bruce Robertson]

I think people generally become more tolerant over time, although there will be always be bad eggs. I'm 27 and even when I was a kid it was pretty common and uncontroversial to call something "gay" as an insult. Although there was no real homophobic hatred behind it, it just wouldn't be appropriate to say that now, thankfully.
I do think one problem is humourless uber-liberals making things a pain in the hole for everyone, especially in America (I say that as a fairly left wing person myself). The more people hear about mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and shite like that, especially dirt poor people with no privilege whatsoever, the more likely they are to reject it all and regress towards bigoted views. I'm not forgiving them, just saying it isn't helpful.

That sir, is a fantastic post. It doesn't really provide an answer to my original question, but enlightened nonetheless.

[welshbairn]

49 minutes ago, Connor 4 Real said:

I think people generally become more tolerant over time, although there will be always be bad eggs. I'm 27 and even when I was a kid it was pretty common and uncontroversial to call something "gay" as an insult. Although there was no real homophobic hatred behind it, it just wouldn't be appropriate to say that now, thankfully.

I do think one problem is humourless uber-liberals making things a pain in the hole for everyone, especially in America (I say that as a fairly left wing person myself). The more people hear about mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and shite like that, especially dirt poor people with no privilege whatsoever, the more likely they are to reject it all and regress towards bigoted views. I'm not forgiving them, just saying it isn't helpful.

The mad right have just as much idiotic jargon as the mad left, if not more, the whiny snowflakes.

[Fullerene]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The mad right have just as much idiotic jargon as the mad left, if not more, the whiny snowflakes.

I agree.

Then  again it is only us metropolitan elite of Inverness that would suggest such a thing.

[Paco]

 

1 hour ago, Connor 4 Real said:

I think people generally become more tolerant over time, although there will be always be bad eggs. I'm 27 and even when I was a kid it was pretty common and uncontroversial to call something "gay" as an insult. Although there was no real homophobic hatred behind it, it just wouldn't be appropriate to say that now, thankfully.

I do think one problem is humourless uber-liberals making things a pain in the hole for everyone, especially in America (I say that as a fairly left wing person myself). The more people hear about mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and shite like that, especially dirt poor people with no privilege whatsoever, the more likely they are to reject it all and regress towards bigoted views. I'm not forgiving them, just saying it isn't helpful.

Great post. I'm 25 and would say the same regarding the use of "gay". It was very widespread, even in lower primary school, to describe something you didn't like as "gay". It wasn't intended with any malice but I think this generation will avoid hanging onto it, the way the older generation still harp on about "darkies" or "pakis" and say it's fine because it used to be fine. 

Arriving around 13 or 14, anybody not doing something you wanted would see them labelled a poof. Not coming out for a game of football? Don't be a poof. Wearing a pink tshirt? What a poof. Again, there seems to be an acceptance now that's not OK. There were four or five blatantly gay people in my year at school, none of whom felt they could come out at school. I think that's a real shame and the castigation of people as "poofs" or "gay" etc for trivial issues must have played a big part in that. 

I suppose what my ramblings are saying is that it's an age thing. The older generation weren't used to people of colour. Baby boomers weren't really used to homosexuals. This generation is exposed to pretty much everything from a young age, so that would be the explanation for changing attitudes - as well as the common decency, likely through education, to acknowledge those using the words around you are wrong. 

There's definitely a danger that simply shouting at people to accept it provokes a reaction, though, and that's manifesting itself in politics currently. Attitudes can evolve but they can't change overnight. 

[Shotgun]

IMO, it's a lot harder to be a bigot when you interact on a daily basis with the people you're prejudiced against. Not impossible, but harder. Social activism over the last 30-40 years has meant it's much easier to be openly gay than it used to be. And immigration has been a factor in daily life for so long that most of us are used to living and working alongside people from different cultures. Xenophobia tends to be the most prevalent in areas where there are fewest foreigners to cite just one example.

As a sweeping generalisation; I think the younger generation have a lot less patience with outdated racist and homophobic viewpoints than their parents or grandparents did and while Daily Mail readers may bemoan "Political Correctness" with an incessant tiresomeness, it has resulted in open bigotry becoming much less acceptable than it once was. (No wonder they hate it, eh?).

The bad news is; that as we've seen following the rise of the political right in the US and Europe; the ugly attitudes haven't really gone away. They have simply, until recently been suppressed. Just this morning I saw some Christian white-nationalist pig* on my Facebook gloating about how great it was that thanks to Trump, he was "No longer oppressed."

Sickening.

 

* Not a friend of mine. He was commenting on someone else's page. 

[WFAANW]

1 hour ago, Connor 4 Real said:

 when I was a kid it was pretty common and uncontroversial to call something "gay" as an insult. Although there was no real homophobic hatred behind it, it just wouldn't be appropriate to say that now, thankfully.

Aye, only benders would do that nowadays.