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Lions Watch 2017


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Guest Bob Mahelp
1 minute ago, Allan Jacobsen said:

It wasn't a dig at you personally. It's a word that seems to get thrown about here a lot in this topic and the other rugby topic. It's also a word I hate. A bit like 'bizarre', it's rarely used appropriately (cracking grammar there from me). 

Fairy nuff.

I should maybe point out that I've played rugby and been a rugby fan all my days. I've always looked upon the Lions as something of a 'Barbarians' side, and acknowledged the important part that many Scottish players have played in it. 

Rwcently though, there's no doubt it's been 'Skyified' and has been turned into a rather more 'British' and commercial version of what it was in earlier days.  

I find it very hard to identify with a Lions side, and I'm not ashamed to say that this side means nothing to me...even with Scottish participation. 

Maybe others feel differently, and maybe I was rather hasty in condemning their opinions. My apologies.

I still stand by my post that as a Scottish Rugby fan, the most important result of the weekend was our defeat to Fiji. And I resent the fact that our result was influenced by the Lions taking away players to make up their reserve squad..

 

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1 minute ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Fairy nuff.

I should maybe point out that I've played rugby and been a rugby fan all my days. I've always looked upon the Lions as something of a 'Barbarians' side, and acknowledged the important part that many Scottish players have played in it. 

Rwcently though, there's no doubt it's been 'Skyified' and has been turned into a rather more 'British' and commercial version of what it was in earlier days.  

I find it very hard to identify with a Lions side, and I'm not ashamed to say that this side means nothing to me...even with Scottish participation. 

Maybe others feel differently, and maybe I was rather hasty in condemning their opinions. My apologies.

I still stand by my post that as a Scottish Rugby fan, the most important result of the weekend was our defeat to Fiji. And I resent the fact that our result was influenced by the Lions taking away players to make up their reserve squad..

 

I agree with what you're saying. I've never felt any connection to the Lions. I also think that Gatland is a haddy. That being said, I'd imagine that if it were Jones or Cotter or Schmidt in charge (I'm using the coaches from the 2017 Six Nations hence why no Toonie), they'd be biased towards the nations that they were managing. I've no issue if someone wants to support the Lions though - unless they decide to bash out Rule Britannia...

As for our defeat to Fiji, the players taken away by the Lions weren't going to be in the Scotland team if I recall correctly. I also think a lot of people tend to underestimate Fiji. I mean, how can a team that has Nakarawa in it be shite? :wub:

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Only seen the highlights of today and likely to miss the next two tests so can't comment much but I must admit I find it hilarious how far ahead a nation of 4 million people can be over "another" with 60 million to choose from. I'm well aware that Australia and South Africa have had a tough time since the World Cup (where obviously there were 4 Southern Hemisphere sides in the semis) but they're still miles ahead down there when it comes to chucking the ball around which is probably why Ben Te'o, who I've yet to see complete a pass ever, is considered a player up here.

Also GIU Gatland and I hope he's had a rubbish night's sleep.

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I agree with what you're saying. I've never felt any connection to the Lions. I also think that Gatland is a haddy. That being said, I'd imagine that if it were Jones or Cotter or Schmidt in charge (I'm using the coaches from the 2017 Six Nations hence why no Toonie), they'd be biased towards the nations that they were managing. I've no issue if someone wants to support the Lions though - unless they decide to bash out Rule Britannia...
As for our defeat to Fiji, the players taken away by the Lions weren't going to be in the Scotland team if I recall correctly. I also think a lot of people tend to underestimate Fiji. I mean, how can a team that has Nakarawa in it be shite? :wub:


This...

Also I seen on twitter (Stephen Jones [emoji16]) that one Scot actually turned down the Lions to stay and play in the last test vs Fiji. Don't know how true this is as I haven't seen it validated from a more credible source.
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10 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Fairy nuff.

I should maybe point out that I've played rugby and been a rugby fan all my days. I've always looked upon the Lions as something of a 'Barbarians' side, and acknowledged the important part that many Scottish players have played in it. 

Rwcently though, there's no doubt it's been 'Skyified' and has been turned into a rather more 'British' and commercial version of what it was in earlier days.  

I find it very hard to identify with a Lions side, and I'm not ashamed to say that this side means nothing to me...even with Scottish participation. 

Maybe others feel differently, and maybe I was rather hasty in condemning their opinions. My apologies.

I still stand by my post that as a Scottish Rugby fan, the most important result of the weekend was our defeat to Fiji. And I resent the fact that our result was influenced by the Lions taking away players to make up their reserve squad..

 

The result against Fiji was as much influenced by the decision to let Alex Dunbar come home after the Australia Test, and the injuries to guys like Maitland, as it was by allowing Russell and Dell to go to NZ.

As for the commercialisation of the Lions, of course it has become commercial. It costs money to have player released from their clubs/countries for the tour, but it also generates a huge amount of money for the 4 Home Unions. There is huge interest at home and abroad, and the Lions Tour is still seen as one of the highlights of a career for a player on either side.

The fact that this tour's coach is a complete fuckwit with no respect for anyone else's opinion doesn't mean that the Lions have no respect for Scottish Rugby.

Of those Scots on the tour, who do you genuinely think should have been in the Test side yesterday? And which other Scots who weren't selected should have been in the Test team? Nel and Jonny Gray would perhaps have had a shout, but wouldn't have necessarily improved the team. Russell on the bench, maybe, and Dunbar can consider himself extremely unlucky given Gatland's propensity for a hard running 12, but as I've said before, the Scots aren't the only ones who have been hard done by with Gatland as coach.

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The result against Fiji was as much influenced by the decision to let Alex Dunbar come home after the Australia Test, and the injuries to guys like Maitland, as it was by allowing Russell and Dell to go to NZ. As for the commercialisation of the Lions, of course it has become commercial. It costs money to have player released from their clubs/countries for the tour, but it also generates a huge amount of money for the 4 Home Unions. There is huge interest at home and abroad, and the Lions Tour is still seen as one of the highlights of a career for a player on either side.

The fact that this tour's coach is a complete fuckwit with no respect for anyone else's opinion doesn't mean that the Lions have no respect for Scottish Rugby.

Of those Scots on the tour, who do you genuinely think should have been in the Test side yesterday? And which other Scots who weren't selected should have been in the Test team? Nel and Jonny Gray would perhaps have had a shout, but wouldn't have necessarily improved the team. Russell on the bench, maybe, and Dunbar can consider himself extremely unlucky given Gatland's propensity for a hard running 12, but as I've said before, the Scots aren't the only ones who have been hard done by with Gatland as coach.

 

I'd add hamish Watson n josh strauss to the list of Scots who could feel hard done to. I'd also throw robshaw into the mix as someone that could have done a decent job for lions. Robshaw is underrated for me. Grey or launchberry (and indeed itoje) would have been a vast improvement on awj. I think the back 5 was pretty uninspiring tbh and alongside the crash ball centres is where gatland has gone badly wrong. Eta had a lions coach picked a predominantly English n Scottish squad it would not have won but it would almost certainly have been more expansive pacier and more competitive.

 

 

 

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I thought the game was lost at the breakdown where the lions back row were basically destroyed. The All Blacks basically got there first far more often and were better over the ball when they did. I honestly think Watson or Barclay could have done a better job at the breakdown. To be honest, with the squad he's picked I don't really know how Gatland fixes this. I think Tipuric has to be considered.

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Wow. Just caught up.
In summary I do not support the Lions, the professional insults dished out to many Scots who deserved to be in squad coupled with the nod the head approval of the sky team Scots was the last straw.
I am firmly behind NZ and have said that from the start.
If other people on here want to support this farce, fair enuff
.. but I just don't understand why. Only so many times ones team and players can be insulted.
That's just my take. Enjoy the rugby all

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I thought the game was lost at the breakdown where the lions back row were basically destroyed. The All Blacks basically got there first far more often and were better over the ball when they did. I honestly think Watson or Barclay could have done a better job at the breakdown. To be honest, with the squad he's picked I don't really know how Gatland fixes this. I think Tipuric has to be considered.

Couldn't agree more. Gatland has absolutely painted himself into a corner
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I realise the repetition of this discussion is getting boring, but as it keeps coming up...

It's not a remotely controversial opinion to say that Scotland players would have considerably improved that XV, not least Hamish Watson. I've said all along that the most ridiculous exclusion of all was Launchbury but it's only Scotland as a nation that have suffered a deliberate shunning by Gatland, as opposed to some English individuals being overlooked for obviously inferior Welsh players.

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In other news, I'm absolutely stunned to see a coach crying about opposition players having the gall to tackle Conor Murray: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/25/lions-announce-team-for-hurricanes-game-with-rory-best-at-helm

Then he actually has the lack of self-awareness to say:

Quote

we said all along that we weren’t coming here to bitch and moan about the refereeing and we needed to make sure that we played and looked after things ourselves and were in control of our own things.”

You could always, you know, stop bitching and moaning about nothing then.

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Watching the match for the first time right now. Chipping the ball straight to New Zealand at every opportunity seems like a great tactic.

9 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

In other news, I'm absolutely stunned to see a coach crying about opposition players having the gall to tackle Conor Murray: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/25/lions-announce-team-for-hurricanes-game-with-rory-best-at-helm

Maybe if he wasn't instructed to box kick every single time the Lions get possession he wouldn't be getting murdered.

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Maybe if he wasn't instructed to box kick every single time the Lions get possession he wouldn't be getting murdered.

He does the same when playing for Munster and Ireland. The exact same storys came out in the media (from the player) after a Glasgow game complaining about the tackles (from Grey and Strauss) on him as he cleared the ball.
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