craigkillie Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Since I gather from the comments you included Willie Waddell - if I click on a link to a page I'm not giving you another click by watching a video - presumably on the basis of one European trophy for Rangers then I don't think it's really that much of an achievement compared to any of the names I listed, given the success of Rangers in Europe at the time. I'd mark him down for not winning more, personally. Of course, the notion of including any Rangers and Celtic managers given their comparative resources to near enough every other Scottish manager in history is complete nonsense, but I suppose Stein's still worthy of such company. Waddell won the league with Killie - the last non-city club to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Waddell won the league with Killie - the last non-city club to do so. Whoops. A stronger argument than others for number 5, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St00ble Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Seems to me that 4 of the 5 are dead certs: busby, shankly, stein, ferguson (no particular order) The fifth is very much up for grabs. Waddell is a good shout as are McLean and Smith. Bill Struth certainly in the equation also imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCelt67 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Steve McQueen said: I always find it weird that Celtic never mention the 1970 European Cup Final. I know it wont compare to 1967 but adds to Steins legacy. Before my time but from what I have heard, there was a dispute with players and the board over a bonus which created a bit of an atmosphere. Whist this wasn't the first and certainly wasn't the last dispute of this nature at Celtic, the fact it flared up days before the European Cup final, a final that we lost, means the whole event isn't looked back upon fondly. Regarding Stein's legacy, according to my father and Celtic fans of that generation that I've spoken to, this was the only game they had seen Stein believe the media hype and underestimate the opposition. Beating the side labelled 'the best team in the world' by the English media in the semi finals must surely played it's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Both Bill Struth and Walt would be in my top five along with Fergie, Big Jock and Bill Shanks. Fucking hell - was this chosen by white balls in the PUL communiteh hall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I could've won as many trophies as Smith did with the money he has to spend. His laughable tenure as Everton manager tells you all you need to know about his managerial abilities. Didn't Smith have a better % record as Scotland Manager than Stein, despite the wealth of talent at Big Jock's disposal? You can make stats fit any argument you want. Tell us again what Moyes won in ELEVEN years as Everton boss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Fucking hell - was this chosen by white balls in the PUL communiteh hall? What could you argue with in terms of silverware won in their respective Management careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 14 hours ago, jupe1407 said: 1. Jock Stein 2. Alex Ferguson 3. Matt Busby 4. Jim McLean 5. Bob Shankly This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 What could you argue with in terms of silverware won in their respective Management careers? It shouldn't be based on silverware and I strongly suspect you weren't using that criteria for your selection either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This. That a manager of the most successful domestic Scottish club by far, doesn't merit a mention is incomprehensible. [emoji849] lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 It shouldn't be based on silverware and I strongly suspect you weren't using that criteria for your selection either. How could it not be based on their track record/achievements as a Manager, the judgement is surely on what they/their teams won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That a manager of the most successful domestic Scottish club by far, doesn't merit a mention is incomprehensible. [emoji849] lol Who?Walter Myth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 46 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Didn't Smith have a better % record as Scotland Manager than Stein, despite the wealth of talent at Big Jock's disposal? You can make stats fit any argument you want. Tell us again what Moyes won in ELEVEN years as Everton boss? What has David Moyes' Everton record got to do with how overrated a manager Walter Smith is? He won all these titles with the old Rangers with absolutely zero competition. As soon as his gargantuan financial advantage over all other clubs was gone when he joined Everton, you saw how average he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobles Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Didn't Smith have a better % record as Scotland Manager than Stein, despite the wealth of talent at Big Jock's disposal? You can make stats fit any argument you want. Tell us again what Moyes won in ELEVEN years as Everton boss? He qualified for the champions league which is bigger than a cup win for.most top flight clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 He qualified for the champions league which is bigger than a cup win for.most top flight clubs Finished 4th one year? Yep I guess he's got that to look back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Smith did exactly what was expected of him for the vast majority of his time at Ibrox, which was to effectively seal club most other sides with an enormous financial advantage and dominate an almost laughably bad Celtic side. Without this advantage in England he proved to be utterly average, below average in fact.There are maybe only a couple of seasons he exceeded expectations, one of which being the UEFA run. Shitfesting a UEFA cup campaign before meekly surrendering a final isn't a huge or top five worthy achievement imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 What has David Moyes' Everton record got to do with how overrated a manager Walter Smith is? He won all these titles with the old Rangers with absolutely zero competition. As soon as his gargantuan financial advantage over all other clubs was gone when he joined Everton, you saw how average he was. The Moyes comparison is that he eventually had a lot more to spend at Goodson than Smith ever did, and still won f*ck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: The Moyes comparison is that he eventually had a lot more to spend at Goodson than Smith ever did, and still won f*ck all. Well done on spectacularly missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, RedRob72 said: That a manager of the most successful domestic Scottish club by far, doesn't merit a mention is incomprehensible. lol Aside from the "Financial advantage" argument advanced elsewhere ... That Rangers project was handed over from Souness half way through so inevitably the kudos is split between the two of them in a similar way to Alex Ferguson's legacy routinely being rated above both Shankly & Paisley's individual contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The Moyes comparison is that he eventually had a lot more to spend at Goodson than Smith ever did, and still won f*ck all. Surely Moyes is only relevant if we're saying he rates above Smith or beats him into the top five. Obviously Smith has achieved more than Moyes, but neither are top five material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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