Wheelchair v Buggy

[The DA]

2 minutes ago, deej said:

Rock paper scissors would be the best and fairest solution to any disputes.

Bit unfair.  The mother with the buggy already has her hands full and the wheelchair user might be a quadriplegic. 

[deej]

1 minute ago, The DA said:

Bit unfair.  The mother with the buggy already has her hands full and the wheelchair user might be a quadriplegic. 

 

In that case they whisper their choice to a fellow passenger and they then fight it out on behalf of buggy/wheelchair. Sorted

[The DA]

3 minutes ago, deej said:

 

In that case they whisper their choice to a fellow passenger and they then fight it out on behalf of buggy/wheelchair. Sorted

That sounds reasonable.  Good entertainment for the other passengers too.

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

Maybe buses should have two bays big enough for either a buggy/pram or a wheelchair.  It's not going to solve everything but it would be a start.

Most buses in Edinburgh do these days. It doesn't solve anything, you just get two buggies in the spaces and then lots of glowering if anybody "more entitled" looks like threatening their space.

My kid has came through the buggy years, nearly. It's absolutely tortuous taking a small child onto public transport.

But I was brought up not to be a self entitled p***k, so I folded the buggy if it had to be done, or more often I'd just get off and walk extra. (That's usually a blessing. Small babies on buses are time bombs.)

[blastie_12]

I'm not in a wheelchair, I don't own a buggy or even a wean but I have been on a bus...

It could of been me...

[The DA]

Just now, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

Most buses in Edinburgh do these days. It doesn't solve anything, you just get two buggies in the spaces and then lots of glowering if anybody "more entitled" looks like threatening their space.

My kid has came through the buggy years, nearly. It's absolutely tortuous taking a small child onto public transport.

But I was brought up not to be a self entitled p***k, so I folded the buggy if it had to be done, or more often I'd just get off and walk extra. (That's usually a blessing. Small babies on buses are time bombs.)

Shhh - don't go giving the terrorists any ideas.

[Cosmic Joe]

As a frequent user of Dundee buses I can envisage a couple of potential problems with this outcome. Most drivers don't see it in their job remit to return your "Good Morning" when you alight their bus, so asking them to intervene in a wheelchair v buggy dispute might be a tall order. Also some of these buggy drehvers are not to be messed with... 

[Rugster]

2 minutes ago, blastie_12 said:

I'm not in a wheelchair, I don't own a buggy or even a wean but I have been on a bus...

It could of been me...

Have, you ignoramus. 

[RedRob72]

Think it depends on the attitude of individuals in these circumstances, if either of those involved was being a c*nt about it, I'd side with the other.

[pandarilla]

I can see both sides of the argument, but we shouldn't be treating certain people differently than others because where does it stop?
what if the bus was completely full, do they ask people to start getting off to allow a wheelchair person to get on? Do they have to be disabled or is being in a wheelchair enough? Should they start asking people if they can wait until the next one to get off to let someone who is in a hurry to get on? If you have 2/3 wheelchairs wanting the same space do we start comparing disabilities?
Public transport should stick to a first come first served basis or make areas for Wheelchair users only.
 
As for helping people, i can see why people are reluctant there has been plenty of instances where people have been abused for just trying to help. It happened to me, sort of, i stood up to let a pregnant woman sit down.... well i though she was pregnant.... apparently she is just big boned. at least i think she said that in amongst the swear words.

Of course we should treat some people differently. It's not hard.

Wheelchair users take precedent over buggies/prams. It really is that simple.

The vast, vast majority of cases can be discussed reasonably and rationally. When c***s are involved in the dispute, the rule has to be enforced.

[Black and White Tragic]

Im sorry some may not agree with me here, but some buggies do not fold and if the child is pre walking age it should be classed the same as a wheelchair user. The wheelchair user is unable to walk and fold his chair as is the child if the buggy can not physically be folded by the parent. It should be on a first come first served basis.

Then make it mandatory to have a folding buggy if you use the bus? Problem solved.

[Black and White Tragic]

I never thought of that. Would definitely lead to some funny looks on the Underground.

Only if there's no wean in it, surely.

[Black and White Tragic]

The media are reporting mumsnet comments on this story. 

Careful, they're watching you...

First rule of Mumsnet, don't talk about Mumsnet.

[MEADOWXI]

All people with buggies or wheelchairs should be provided with a private chauffeur and large private car suitable for carrying the same (possibly Pope-mobile style),

This in one action would,

Free up the buses for others,

Improve the economy of the country with the need for all the extra cars building,

reducing unemployment with the need for all the extra drivers,

and push up the price of oil due to increased demand for petrol improving the balance of trade deficit.

 

Saving the UK from the poverty of BREXIT as a fully employed Utpoia and making public transport better for all.

 

Roads might be a bit busier and no-one would get anywhere but no scheme is perfect.

[TheCelt67]

I used to be a support worker for people with various disabilities, including wheelchair users.  I was generally based in a care in the community set up and with me being a non-driver, First Bus were usually my chauffeur service of choice.  Whilst I'd never be expecting any special treatment, a trip on a local bus would show the best in people but also, unfortunately, the worst in people.  Some would go out their way to offer assistance and try their hardest to interact with the individuals I supported.  On the other hand there were those who would refuse to move their buggies when you were trying to board, some folk would even barge passed you at bus stops, bus stops at the Forge were generally the worst for this and there was the lovely woman who remarked "people like that shouldn't be on the bus anyway".

Personally, I have to echo the sentiments said by others on here.  Wheelchairs should always be priority.

[Sergeant Wilson]

30 minutes ago, TheCelt67 said:

I used to be a support worker for people with various disabilities, including wheelchair users.  I was generally based in a care in the community set up and with me being a non-driver, First Bus were usually my chauffeur service of choice.  Whilst I'd never be expecting any special treatment, a trip on a local bus would show the best in people but also, unfortunately, the worst in people.  Some would go out their way to offer assistance and try their hardest to interact with the individuals I supported.  On the other hand there were those who would refuse to move their buggies when you were trying to board, some folk would even barge passed you at bus stops, bus stops at the Forge were generally the worst for this and there was the lovely woman who remarked "people like that shouldn't be on the bus anyway".

Personally, I have to echo the sentiments 

Some carer you turned out to be.

[ICTChris]

I used to be a support worker for people with various disabilities, including wheelchair users.  I was generally based in a care in the community set up and with me being a non-driver, First Bus were usually my chauffeur service of choice.  Whilst I'd never be expecting any special treatment, a trip on a local bus would show the best in people but also, unfortunately, the worst in people.  Some would go out their way to offer assistance and try their hardest to interact with the individuals I supported.  On the other hand there were those who would refuse to move their buggies when you were trying to board, some folk would even barge passed you at bus stops, bus stops at the Forge were generally the worst for this and there was the lovely woman who remarked "people like that shouldn't be on the bus anyway".
Personally, I have to echo the sentiments said by others on here.  Wheelchairs should always be priority.

I have a few mates who work as support workers and they often complain about the way some people behave to wheelchair users. I can't imagine anything any lower than acting a c**t because you have to move a few feet for someone in a wheelchair.

[heedthebaa]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

 

I have a few mates who work as support workers and they often complain about the way some people behave to wheelchair users. I can't imagine anything any lower than acting a c**t because you have to move a few feet for someone in a wheelchair.










 

 

Can't say I've had public transport problems with the granddaughter, everyone I've encountered has been understanding as we boarded. There are worse probs for the disabled than a bus, toilet/changing facilities for instance. 

[Scary Bear]

A court case has ruled in favour of a wheelchair user in a dispute he had with a buggy-pushing parent on a First Bus in Leeds.

The case came after a passenger using the wheelchair space for their buggy refused to move in a bus in 2012 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36534907  FirstBus don't require people to move from the wheelchair space but request that they do so.

Just today the Supreme Court has ruled in favour of the wheelchair user.  I don't really have the full background to this case but it seems to me that while it might be a pain in the arse having to move your buggy and kid and bags etc for a wheelchair user, at least you have the option.  What if the bus only comes a couple of times a day, is the guy supposed to miss work or sit around on the pavement for hours until the next one?  And it's easy to sneer at 'full-time mummies' etc but life, especially with children, is a series of pains in the arse, sometimes you just have to eat it.

Any P&Bers ever refused to move for a disabled person on a bus?

 

 

The wheelchair user should take priority. However, this seems another case of putting one group who need a bit of help up against another group who need a bit of help.

For me, the issue would be bus companies not providing adequate vehicles for their users. There's possibly not been enough thought about how much space on the ground floor of a bus should be capable of taking wheelchairs and buggies. If you are a parent with two or three young kids in tow, then getting them all on/off the bus, as well as a putting up/taking down a buggy, while possibly also having shopping, is going to be pretty difficult.

Over the years I've seen various stats about the number of disabled people kicking about. There must be a fair few mothers and babies too. This should be adequately taken into account when designing future buses, especially if the bus companies are part funded by government.

That's without really mentioning the increasing elderly population, many of whom will be mobility impaired.

[Newbornbairn]

I'm going to take a guess and say that 95% of the time that wheelchair space doesn't have a wheelchair in it. Is it too much to ask that on the rare occasions when it's needed, it should be used as it was intended to be used? 

 

Baby buggies used to be lightweight things that opened with one hand and folded down into something the size of a small bag - that's because they were designed for public transport. Even the double ones weren't much bigger. 

 

£35, job done.