ICTChris Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A court case has ruled in favour of a wheelchair user in a dispute he had with a buggy-pushing parent on a First Bus in Leeds. The case came after a passenger using the wheelchair space for their buggy refused to move in a bus in 2012 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36534907 FirstBus don't require people to move from the wheelchair space but request that they do so. Just today the Supreme Court has ruled in favour of the wheelchair user. I don't really have the full background to this case but it seems to me that while it might be a pain in the arse having to move your buggy and kid and bags etc for a wheelchair user, at least you have the option. What if the bus only comes a couple of times a day, is the guy supposed to miss work or sit around on the pavement for hours until the next one? And it's easy to sneer at 'full-time mummies' etc but life, especially with children, is a series of pains in the arse, sometimes you just have to eat it. Any P&Bers ever refused to move for a disabled person on a bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A wheelchair user is in that chair because they need to be. A baby can easily be taken out of the pushchair and the pushchair folded and put in the luggage rack. Yes, it's a pain in the arse but a wheelchair user doesn't usually have the option. You'd have to be a moron to argue otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A wheelchair user is in that chair because they need to be. A baby can easily be taken out of the pushchair and the pushchair folded and put in the luggage rack. Yes, it's a pain in the arse but a wheelchair user doesn't usually have the option. You'd have to be a moron to argue otherwise. Pretty much agree with this. What was the mother's line of argument? [emoji23] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennboy1978 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A wheelchair user is in that chair because they need to be. A baby can easily be taken out of the pushchair and the pushchair folded and put in the luggage rack. Yes, it's a pain in the arse but a wheelchair user doesn't usually have the option. You'd have to be a moron to argue otherwise. Summed this up for me, saved some typing. How it got to court in the first place is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuggz Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Having been a bus driver for many years,I think the problem arose when some p***k in an office decided to make the wheelchair space available for buggies,without thinking it through.It was introduced for wheelchairs,and,from,the outset should have been enforced.Not helping matters are the buggies built like Sherman tanks,which appear to be an extension of the home,judging by the amount of stuff in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Kennboy1978 said: Summed this up for me, saved some typing. How it got to court in the first place is beyond me. It's pretty clear from the link. Although this thread has gone down the road of "which of them gets to use that space?", the case is actually nothing to do with that. The court wasn't trying to decide whether the buggy had more right than the wheelchair or vice versa; rather, it was trying to decide whether the bus company should have enforced its own rule - it currently requests that the able-bodied cede to wheelchair users. The buggy-wielding party is not (as far as I can tell, and and far as I would expect) part of the court case. They just happened to be involved in the incident that provoked the case. Now, on that incident: unless there are pretty extreme extenuating circumstances, it seems that the wheelchair user would have a clearly better claim on the space, on the grounds of both the (unenforceable) rule and relative need. Although I can just about envisage a scenario where the buggy might have a reasonable shout for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudu Dahan pal Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Some typical "stay at home mummy xx" I have on Facebook put a big rant on a few weeks back about this. She was moaning because someone was in the Buggey space already and she went into the wheelchair space, then someone in a wheelchair had the audacity to want on the bus. She said she was ranting and raving at the driver saying why should she fold her Buggey or get off when "she was there first". Someone put her in her place and it wasn't long before the status was deleted and another put up about people being "ignorant". How ironic. The space has been designated for a wheelchair. So if someone in a wheelchair wants on the bus and you're in the space you either fold the Buggey or get off. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuggz Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Having read the beeb article this springs out.. "Where a driver who has made such a request concludes that such a refusal is unreasonable, he or she should consider some further step to pressurise the non-wheelchair user to vacate the space, depending on the circumstances." I wonder what steps they envisage the driver taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 How much of a twat do you have to be to refuse to fold a buggy and let a person on a wheelchair get on a bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, flyingscot said: How much of a twat do you have to be to refuse to fold a buggy and let a person on a wheelchair get on a bus. Probably too busy voting for Mrs Brown's Boys as the best sitcom ever on their phone at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Hibeesbounce75 said: Some typical "stay at home mummy xx" I have on Facebook put a big rant on a few weeks back about this. She was moaning because someone was in the Buggey space already and she went into the wheelchair space, then someone in a wheelchair had the audacity to want on the bus. She said she was ranting and raving at the driver saying why should she fold her Buggey or get off when "she was there first". That's class using playground rules in your adult life. Can I now park in any empty disabled space at Tesco then? Feel sorry for her kids. What a role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewh Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Gaz FFC said: That's class using playground rules in your adult life. Can I now park in any empty disabled space at Tesco then? Feel sorry for her kids. What a role model. My brother is a wheelchair user and couldn't find a disabled space to park at Tesco. He then saw an able bodied man with his young daughter going to a car parked in a disabled space and so he drove up and challenged him. I was nearby and overheard the conversation. It was something like: Excuse me but why are you parked in a disabled space when you're clearly not disabled? Because I've got my six year old daughter with me. But neither of you are disabled. She's more important than you so tough. I admit I laughed, but my brother didn't find it funny, not in the least! It's the way some (increasingly many) people are nowadays. Selfish. Me, me, me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Im sorry some may not agree with me here, but some buggies do not fold and if the child is pre walking age it should be classed the same as a wheelchair user. The wheelchair user is unable to walk and fold his chair as is the child if the buggy can not physically be folded by the parent. It should be on a first come first served basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 And why did the wheelchair user not just wait for the next bus? It's not like he didn't have anywhere to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Lisa Cuddy said: A wheelchair user is in that chair because they need to be. A baby can easily be taken out of the pushchair and the pushchair folded and put in the luggage rack. Yes, it's a pain in the arse but a wheelchair user doesn't usually have the option. You'd have to be a moron to argue otherwise. I agree in principle, but I saw a letter about this in the Metro the other day and someone was pointing out that if the underside area of buggy/pram is filled with shopping/baby stuff etc., then the parent can't fold it down. Not sure if that makes any difference. 18 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Im sorry some may not agree with me here, but some buggies do not fold and if the child is pre walking age it should be classed the same as a wheelchair user. The wheelchair user is unable to walk and fold his chair as is the child if the buggy can not physically be folded by the parent. It should be on a first come first served basis. Well I guess this sums up the issue - capacity. What if another wheelchair user arrives? What if three buggy users all arrive at once? With limited space there's always a good chance it'll be "unfair" to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Wheelchair has wheels, baby does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 47 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Im sorry some may not agree with me here, but some buggies do not fold and if the child is pre walking age it should be classed the same as a wheelchair user. The wheelchair user is unable to walk and fold his chair as is the child if the buggy can not physically be folded by the parent. It should be on a first come first served basis. Aye get the wheelchair user to sit on the person pushing his or her chairs lap? Maybe bounce him or her on their knee and sing old MacDonald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernJambo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Wheelchair has wheels, baby does not. So the wheelchair user should just wheel themselves to their destination, agreed. Laziness of the highest order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, NorthernJambo said: So the wheelchair user should just wheel themselves to their destination, agreed. Laziness of the highest order! Probably motorised - could just drive himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 hours ago, shuggz said: Having read the beeb article this springs out.. "Where a driver who has made such a request concludes that such a refusal is unreasonable, he or she should consider some further step to pressurise the non-wheelchair user to vacate the space, depending on the circumstances." I wonder what steps they envisage the driver taking. Putting her in a wheelchair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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