Philippines

[Alex_14]

Planning on going in July. We've got some friends in New Zealand and it's one of the few places that we can economically all get to.

I'm aware Duterte is a nutjob and I'm also aware that it's 'monsoon season' in July but I've researched the areas to avoid and to go at such a time, so no problem there. Seems we can get to areas off the typhoon belt and enjoy the best of the weather.

Basically, am I going to die? Is it a worthwhile place to go? I've been to Bali already and want to see somewhere new.

[hk blues]

Planning on going in July. We've got some friends in New Zealand and it's one of the few places that we can economically all get to.
I'm aware Duterte is a nutjob and I'm also aware that it's 'monsoon season' in July but I've researched the areas to avoid and to go at such a time, so no problem there. Seems we can get to areas off the typhoon belt and enjoy the best of the weather.
Basically, am I going to die? Is it a worthwhile place to go? I've been to Bali already and want to see somewhere new.

It's not Bali!

Seriously though, as things stand Duterte is a bit eccentric but much of what he says is bravado or scenility t.b.h. Yes, the extra-judicial killings are real but I'm assuming you're not planning to get involved in the drugs trade when you're here. If you avoid the known high-risk areas you won't come to much harm.

As for the weather, it's not really what I'd describe as monsoon territory, it's too long a rainy season and too unpredictable. Sounds like you've done your homework so are aware of the wetter areas of the country.

There are a few tourist areas, specifically Cebu, Boracay and Palawan off the top of my head. If I'm honest, I'll say it's not a bad choice but there are plenty better around SE Asia. But, if finances and logistics make it attractive then you won't have a bad time. It is cheap enough t.b.f.

So, you probably won't die and it's worthwhile visiting. Just don't plan on spending too much time in Manila if reports about its general crappines are to be believed, and I think they are.

[Alex_14]

16 minutes ago, hk blues said:

 

It's not Bali!

Seriously though, as things stand Duterte is a bit eccentric but much of what he says is bravado or scenility t.b.h. Yes, the extra-judicial killings are real but I'm assuming you're not planning to get involved in the drugs trade when you're here. If you avoid the known high-risk areas you won't come to much harm.

As for the weather, it's not really what I'd describe as monsoon territory, it's too long a rainy season and too unpredictable. Sounds like you've done your homework so are aware of the wetter areas of the country.

There are a few tourist areas, specifically Cebu, Boracay and Palawan off the top of my head. If I'm honest, I'll say it's not a bad choice but there are plenty better around SE Asia. But, if finances and logistics make it attractive then you won't have a bad time. It is cheap enough t.b.f.

So, you probably won't die and it's worthwhile visiting. Just don't plan on spending too much time in Manila if reports about its general crappines are to be believed, and I think they are.
 

 

ETA: I'm sure it's much different to Bali, absolutely. I just mean in terms of SE Asia, that's the easiest place to get to but i've already been there (and Hong Kong but that's totally different). Thanks for the response. Where abouts are you based?

No, we don't intend on getting into drugs over there much like how we avoided them in Bali as I don't fancy being one of the Bali Nine. 

It's trying to find flights that go from Scotland and Auckland to the same place that's the issue. The other option is KL (and then Borneo) but that would work out pricey and nobody else was as keen. I reckon/hope we'd find more than enough to do. 

We're thinking 3 weeks. Plan is to fly into Manila, maybe stay for a day or two and then move on and begin hopping around a few islands. Then we'd fly out of Manila again. 

Happy to hear all/any suggestions you may have. I'll just be pleased if i'm not kidnapped tbh

[Tight minge]

HK Blues knows the drill. Don't waste any time in Manila, it's a fucking shithole. Taxis are a major issue still in metro Manila as well. Your guaranteed to be ripped off. Generally speaking there are much better placed to go in South East Asia. One point of note. A friend recently flew Australia / Manila / UK as they got what they thought was a great deal. They then had to spend 15+ hours flying Philippines Airlines staring at the back of a seat. No personal entertainment on an old plane. They were far from happy.

As HKB says, the extra judicial killings are not worth concerning yourself about, unless your in a area that is not safe, generally Metro Manila, Cavite, Mindanao, etc.

I would however keep a close eye on the general political climate as things could turn for the worse (or get better. Duterte has brought the country close to martial law and fractured relations externally and causing conflict internally and is 'bubbling along'.

I do have a passionate love/hate relationship with the country and really cannot fathom why people would want to go to such a place other than for work or family.

If it's for the flight price, really don't do it. Find another route

[Alex_14]

18 minutes ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

HK Blues knows the drill. Don't waste any time in Manila, it's a fucking shithole. Taxis are a major issue still in metro Manila as well. Your guaranteed to be ripped off. Generally speaking there are much better placed to go in South East Asia. One point of note. A friend recently flew Australia / Manila / UK as they got what they thought was a great deal. They then had to spend 15+ hours flying Philippines Airlines staring at the back of a seat. No personal entertainment on an old plane. They were far from happy.

As HKB says, the extra judicial killings are not worth concerning yourself about, unless your in a area that is not safe, generally Metro Manila, Cavite, Mindanao, etc.

I would however keep a close eye on the general political climate as things could turn for the worse (or get better. Duterte has brought the country close to martial law and fractured relations externally and causing conflict internally and is 'bubbling along'.

I do have a passionate love/hate relationship with the country and really cannot fathom why people would want to go to such a place other than for work or family.

If it's for the flight price, really don't do it. Find another route

The flights we've found are with Emirates so no worries there in terms of flight quality I wouldn't have thought. 

Not overly othered about the poltiical climate as you suggest, and if it did turn for the worse then that's just unlucky I guess. The plan is to go to the 'idyllic' beach resorts and all that fun stuff. We've found some pages along the lines of '10 reasons you MUST visit the Philippines' but I do assume that it was written by a bearded hippy. Is this a realistic plan? If not, I'll have to try convince my bird and 2 pals to bail again (I already tried to convince them that Borneo was the place to be and got shot down). 

[Jacksgranda]

59 minutes ago, Alex_14 said:

The flights we've found are with Emirates so no worries there in terms of flight quality I wouldn't have thought. 

Not overly othered about the poltiical climate as you suggest, and if it did turn for the worse then that's just unlucky I guess. The plan is to go to the 'idyllic' beach resorts and all that fun stuff. We've found some pages along the lines of '10 reasons you MUST visit the Philippines' but I do assume that it was written by a bearded hippy. Is this a realistic plan? If not, I'll have to try convince my bird and 2 pals to bail again (I already tried to convince them that Borneo was the place to be and got shot down). 

You got shot down but you still want to fly? Balls of steel.

[Tight minge]

I've never been to Boracay, but heard a lot of negative feedback. The only place I have heard positive about is Palawan. I can't comment on a realistic plan as you haven't suggested where your planning on going.

Don't waste any time in Manila, it is honestly awful. If you can avoid changing terminals in Manila do so. Changing terminals in Manila is a hassle at the best of times but right now they are still building the SLEX extension/Baclaran flyover and it's a mess. If your flying in and out Emirates, book your internal flights with Cebu Pacific (who are pretty good) and everything will be in terminal 3.

Mindanao is unsafe at the best of times and certainly unstable right now.

Anyway, as I said I have a love/hate relationship with the place and am very negative about the place. Generally I mean go with your eyes wide open and if you get robbed, cheated or have a shit time, you need to take it on the chin. I lived there for 3 years and still have business interests and am over every few months. In my time I've witnessed murders, lost everything I own in a robbery by a trusted Filipino in authority. Been offered a cash for murder solution to a problem with an individual by a ministry of immigration employee. Threatened by the local 'mafia'. And been exposed to corruption and violence at unprecedented levels. It's a fucking horrible place.

There are far better places to go that are risk free.

[The_Kincardine]

I can't think of a good reason to go to Pnas unless you're an older bloke looking for Nat King.

[Tight minge]

I can't think of a good reason to go to Pnas unless you're an older bloke looking for Nat King.

You've probably simplified everything down to one sentence and got it correct.

One thing I found living there is that nearly all expats that stayed there that were not on work assignments (excluding our own HK Blues as his association started in HK) are in denial about the place, choosing to turn a blind eye to the crap as they were getting their hole from a young filly who they had convinced themselves that she loved them and not their money/security.

When I was over last month, one of the few good expats I know, in what was believed to be one of the more solid marriages with a decent Filipina had found out his daughter was not his and his wife had been having several affairs. Felt truly gutted for him and that makes it now 100% of every expat I personally know/knew in the Philippines to get screwed and not in the fun way. The outcome, it was all his fault and he could f**k off as he was not providing enough money for her.

People have this impression that Filipinos are nice, which on the face of it they are, but it's superficial and annoy them and you unleash wrath on ridiculous and unproportinate levels.

The few that are the exception are the OFW's with an education and have lived long enough outside the Philippines to know how to behave.

[Guest JTS98]

7 hours ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

 

People have this impression that Filipinos are nice, which on the face of it they are, but it's superficial and annoy them and you unleash wrath on ridiculous and unproportinate levels.



 

Having been in Asia for around five years now, I think this comment applies to much more than just the Philippines. Obviously Asia is much more than one thing, but Asian perspectives on friendliness, family relationships, responsibility, the notion of what integrity means etc, are all quite different to the western concepts.

I'm not saying we're right and they're wrong - or vice-versa - but I think a lot of westerners who come to Asia don't understand Asians at all. Neither am I saying that I'm an expert as that would take a lot longer than I've been here, but looking past the smiles and listening more to what is not said than what is said are often very important.

I've still got mates at home who batter out the hippy chat about people all over the world being the same. It's a ridiculous notion. While it's true in general that people want safety and prosperity, the perceptions of what that means and how it should be achieved vary hugely. When you live in a foreign culture you just need to accept that, I suppose.

[Tight minge]

49 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Having been in Asia for around five years now, I think this comment applies to much more than just the Philippines. Obviously Asia is much more than one thing, but Asian perspectives on friendliness, family relationships, responsibility, the notion of what integrity means etc, are all quite different to the western concepts.

I'm not saying we're right and they're wrong - or vice-versa - but I think a lot of westerners who come to Asia don't understand Asians at all. Neither am I saying that I'm an expert as that would take a lot longer than I've been here, but looking past the smiles and listening more to what is not said than what is said are often very important.

I've still got mates at home who batter out the hippy chat about people all over the world being the same. It's a ridiculous notion. While it's true in general that people want safety and prosperity, the perceptions of what that means and how it should be achieved vary hugely. When you live in a foreign culture you just need to accept that, I suppose.

Your correct in what you say. There is marked difference between Western and Asian mindsets and neither are 100% right or wrong. I would tend to agree that people all over the world are the same. To the point that we are all trying to get through each day, work and get some enjoyment, but thats where the differences end (you put it more eliquently than myself and its very valid; how the simple things are achieved). You hear a lot about family, responsibility and friendliness of Asians, but not what that entails, plus the poverty that most live in, the sacrifices that many have to make and the poor education. Its a million miles from western culture and mindsets. Add mian zi (face) into the equation and you have a massive minefield.

Its not really something you can experience whilst on holiday, even an extended holiday. The more you live here and certainly if you work it becomes front and centre. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice to be out here when my working day is at least ten times more difficult than it would be doing the same thing back home and the simplest of things become so difficult. I'm very fortunate that my wife has a very western outlook, but even then from time to time, the differing mindsets create issues.

However, I would say my point on the Philippines being unproportinate is valid. Its fucking mental! As I said maybe it is a lot to do with living and working there and interacting on business deals that have exposed me too much to the really disgusting underbelly. It's unbelievably easy in The Philippines to have someone murdered or if you don't want to go that far have someone thrown in jail or deported on trumped up charges and it doesn't cost much. The law is ineffectual. The police have no jurisdiction to arrest someone after 72 hours without a formal complaint going through the courts, which means nothing happens and its who you pay that drives the law. Thats why things have got so out of hand and we now have extra-judicial killings that are already going beyond what Durtete said they would be. We are now at the stage of bombings that will most likely lead to marital law and a breakdown of communication with the terrorist/freedom fighter groups. This is the country that brought you Tanimbala (bullet scam on tourists) that went unchecked for years, kidnap alleys (roads that you had a high chance of being kidnapped on). A lot of the times the police were ineffectual as they were involved. It all goes beyond reason.

For me its education and religion that needs addressed first and Duterte is not the cure and in fact he could make things a lot worse. Was there such a massive drug problem in the Philippines? The only time I seen drugs was when I lived in Novaliches and the police used to sit down from my house at night distributing the drugs. make of that what you will. 

The country is so poor and poorly educated, people firstly have nothing to lose and a mindset that is f**k everyone else. They are generally heart fucking lazy and outwith the ruling families, the only successful businesses are foreign owned.

 

I've lived in Philippines, Indonesia, China, Vietnam and will throw in Russia and Hungary (pre-EU) and worked in many other third world places and by my experience nowhere even comes close to how fucked up The Philippines is.

 

 

 

                                                 

[Guest JTS98]

49 minutes ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

Its a million miles from western culture and mindsets. Add mian zi (face) into the equation and you have a massive minefield.

                                  

Sounds incredible. I've never been to the Philippines and to be honest that's mainly because a lot of people I know who have been reckon it's mental.

I've quoted the section above because I couldn't believe I'd left it out. You're quite right to bring it up and it's one of the main differences that is quite hard to grasp. The idea of losing face (and the often linked notion of the last word) is so strong in many parts of Asia and to a westerner it can seem completely ridiculous. I remember the hoops I had to jump through in Sri Lanka when dealing with the police and tax authorities just to get anything done, since often face must be given before anything will happen. This can manifest in many ways, including being told they can't process something because first you must provide Document X (which the official is holding). The wrong answer is to point out that you've given it to him already. The correct answer is to say 'yes' and give the guy the document again (having filled it in from scratch again). He has demonstrated his position of authority and you have given him the required face so he can now get on with the job. Bonkers. I now take two copies of every document I need when going to offices now. Quick time saving tip.

EDIT to add that this came in very handy at the South Korean Embassy recently when I submitted all the necessary documents. The lady looked through them very slowly then proceeded to tell me that she was very sorry but I had to provide sections 3-10 (or whatever) of the form. To be clear, it stated in big bold letters at the top of the form that those sections were not necessary for my situation. But she was playing the face game. She looked pretty miffed when I just fished them out of my bag already completed. If I'd given them over to her initially she would have made me take them back. That's face.

Where I have seen face become a problem for holiday makers is that they don't understand how quickly a small dispute can become a big problem due to face. I've seen people get into blazing rows which become violent over small things like taking a chair from a table without asking, making a comment when walked into carelessly, asking someone to quieten a child in a restaurant. Face means things must be handled in a certain way. Failure to do this can provoke pretty strong anger very quickly. Losing face matters.

I love living in Asia, perhaps partly because I've not lived in the Philippines by the sound of it. But it certainly takes patience. A lot of foreigners I know like to deride the idea of expats sitting around moaning, but I've found that - while it would be unhealthy to do it every day - a beer with a mate and a right whinge about how ridiculous everything is can be the safety valve that keeps you going.

[Tight minge]

20 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Sounds incredible. I've never been to the Philippines and to be honest that's mainly because a lot of people I know who have been reckon it's mental.

I've quoted the section above because I couldn't believe I'd left it out. You're quite right to bring it up and it's one of the main differences that is quite hard to grasp. The idea of losing face (and the often linked notion of the last word) is so strong in many parts of Asia and to a westerner it can seem completely ridiculous. I remember the hoops I had to jump through in Sri Lanka when dealing with the police and tax authorities just to get anything done, since often face must be given before anything will happen. This can manifest in many ways, including being told they can't process something because first you must provide Document X (which the official is holding). The wrong answer is to point out that you've given it to him already. The correct answer is to say 'yes' and give the guy the document again (having filled it in from scratch again). He has demonstrated his position of authority and you have given him the required face so he can now get on with the job. Bonkers. I now take two copies of every document I need when going to offices now. Quick time saving tip.

EDIT to add that this came in very handy at the South Korean Embassy recently when I submitted all the necessary documents. The lady looked through them very slowly then proceeded to tell me that she was very sorry but I had to provide sections 3-10 (or whatever) of the form. To be clear, it stated in big bold letters at the top of the form that those sections were not necessary for my situation. But she was playing the face game. She looked pretty miffed when I just fished them out of my bag already completed. If I'd given them over to her initially she would have made me take them back. That's face.

Where I have seen face become a problem for holiday makers is that they don't understand how quickly a small dispute can become a big problem due to face. I've seen people get into blazing rows which become violent over small things like taking a chair from a table without asking, making a comment when walked into carelessly, asking someone to quieten a child in a restaurant. Face means things must be handled in a certain way. Failure to do this can provoke pretty strong anger very quickly. Losing face matters.

I love living in Asia, perhaps partly because I've not lived in the Philippines by the sound of it. But it certainly takes patience. A lot of foreigners I know like to deride the idea of expats sitting around moaning, but I've found that - while it would be unhealthy to do it every day - a beer with a mate and a right whinge about how ridiculous everything is can be the safety valve that keeps you going.

I can relate to every word of what you have said. If anything face has made me a more patient and tolerant person (or as you say, better prepared) It can also send me home at night after work seething with rage. The fact you didn't mention it before would suggest that you have integrated and now its part of day to day life. Every day, every situation its there. I mentioned my wife was very westernised and I think a relevant point about her westernisation and face in general. She knows, how to say sorry if she has done something wrong and knows how to accept a 'sorry' in return. How many Asians do you hear say sorry! 

Back on the Philippines, your opening sentence sums it up. I think there is a lot of tourist hip oneupmanship. I actually read the OP's 10 reasons to go to The Philippines and I have never read so much crap in my life (thats the referral from the OP and not what the OP was saying) and a fair bit of it, you have touched on in your posts.

My current boss is a Swede and a right idiot, he is based in China and during Golden week he went to Bali on holiday to a private villa with his family. He was telling me and said 'I really felt like I was living like a local as we had a maid who came in and after cleaning made us an Indonesian lunch'. There was so much wrong with such a statement its unbelievable. Try living 4/5/6 to a room in an house with no windows, air con and minimal furniture and surviving on your wits and maybe you can feel like a local.

He went to Boracay, hated it, got cheated and said he would never return to The Philippines.

 

 

[Alex_14]

Well, that was interesting reading. Been unable to convince them we should go elsewhere and tbh, i'm happy to wing it and see what happens. If I get robbed then it's a story at least and I've found decent travel insurance 

Here's hoping.

 

ETA: Places we're looking at are Palawan, Cebu and El Nido - are they OK? Flying in and out of Manila but spending 0 time there.

[Tight minge]

El Nido is on Palawan anyway is it not? Cebu is second only to AC for sex tourism. Kincardine rightly aluding to the reason most people go to the Philippines. To be honest, I'm probably better equipped to advise where not to go.

You'll probably have a great time*, but honestly, Phu Quoc is the right answer.

*guaranteed to have one incident whilst there.

[Alex_14]

5 minutes ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

El Nido is on Palawan anyway is it not? Cebu is second only to AC for sex tourism. Kincardine rightly aluding to the reason most people go to the Philippines. To be honest, I'm probably better equipped to advise where not to go.

You'll probably have a great time*, but honestly, Phu Quoc is the right answer.

*guaranteed to have one incident whilst there.

I think it is yeah, we'd just pinpointed El Nido as a specific place to go in the region. I'm more than happy to hear your list of where not to go  - we've got the uk gov advice map handy which also highlights where not to go and we do plan on avoiding it.

Realistically, how on earth do you get to Phu Quoc from the UK? Logistically seems a bit nightmarish. 

Well, hopefully. I'd like to think we'll have safety in numbers etc. I encountered some proper dodgers trying to scam us on the Gili islands in summer just gone past, but we got through it.

[Guest JTS98]

42 minutes ago, Alex_14 said:

Well, that was interesting reading. Been unable to convince them we should go elsewhere and tbh, i'm happy to wing it and see what happens. If I get robbed then it's a story at least and I've found decent travel insurance 

Here's hoping.

 

ETA: Places we're looking at are Palawan, Cebu and El Nido - are they OK? Flying in and out of Manila but spending 0 time there.

If your mates really fancy it, then I'd just go along.

Remember that the stuff above is written from the perspective of a long-term resident, not a holiday-maker. You'll probably go and have a good time. Just be prepared for some bumps along the way. Like I said, I know a lot of people who have been. While their feedback has never made me desperate to go there, none of them got murdered either.

 

[Alex_14]

3 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

If your mates really fancy it, then I'd just go along.

Remember that the stuff above is written from the perspective of a long-term resident, not a holiday-maker. You'll probably go and have a good time. Just be prepared for some bumps along the way. Like I said, I know a lot of people who have been. While their feedback has never made me desperate to go there, none of them got murdered either.

 

Yeah, it's trying not to be a pain in the arse that's the problem. It's all well saying 'we're not going here' but I don't have a viable alternative (bar Borneo, which nobody cared for) to suggest...

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Alex_14 said:

Yeah, it's trying not to be a pain in the arse that's the problem. It's all well saying 'we're not going here' but I don't have a viable alternative (bar Borneo, which nobody cared for) to suggest...

I think the OP mentioned KL being a good price.

In that position I'd fly to KL and just use Air Asia. Borneo is a decent shout. But also Langkawi, Penang, Melakka (easy bus ride), The Cameron Highlands and plenty of Thai islands or Bangkok are within easy reach and cheap to get to. Plenty to keep someone busy. It wouldn't even be necessary to really spend any time in KL. Although a pint on Chang Kat sounds pretty good right about now.

[Alex_14]

I think the OP mentioned KL being a good price.
In that position I'd fly to KL and just use Air Asia. Borneo is a decent shout. But also Langkawi, Penang, Melakka (easy bus ride), The Cameron Highlands and plenty of Thai islands or Bangkok are within easy reach and cheap to get to. Plenty to keep someone busy. It wouldn't even be necessary to really spend any time in KL. Although a pint on Chang Kat sounds pretty good right about now.

Cheers, I'm going to avoid doing any work and have a look at these places and logistics now. I'll just go alone and my bird and friends can die in the Philippines