moses1924 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 " It's not because it's wee, it's because people vote tribally instead of for the best man/woman/policies. At least more so than in most places " Is this not what we see in Scotland now as well, those who support independence will either vote SNP or Green regardless of who is best for the job, those who oppose independence will vote for Tories / Labour / Libdems, likewise regardless of whether the Green / SNP candidate is better? I would never vote for the SNP regardless of policies or personalities based on my constitutional preferences, the same is true of those I know who vote SNP who won't vote for anyone else until independence is achieve. I'm not saying this is the wrong approach to take, just that it makes us closer to the electoral situation in NI than we might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, moses1924 said: " It's not because it's wee, it's because people vote tribally instead of for the best man/woman/policies. At least more so than in most places " Is this not what we see in Scotland now as well, those who support independence will either vote SNP or Green regardless of who is best for the job, those who oppose independence will vote for Tories / Labour / Libdems, likewise regardless of whether the Green / SNP candidate is better? I would never vote for the SNP regardless of policies or personalities based on my constitutional preferences, the same is true of those I know who vote SNP who won't vote for anyone else until independence is achieve. I'm not saying this is the wrong approach to take, just that it makes us closer to the electoral situation in NI than we might think. It's nowhere near as tribal as NI. I didn't vote SNP in the last Holyrood election because my disagreement on principle with my local candidate was more important to me than a SNP majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, moses1924 said: " It's not because it's wee, it's because people vote tribally instead of for the best man/woman/policies. At least more so than in most places " Is this not what we see in Scotland now as well, those who support independence will either vote SNP or Green regardless of who is best for the job, those who oppose independence will vote for Tories / Labour / Libdems, likewise regardless of whether the Green / SNP candidate is better? I would never vote for the SNP regardless of policies or personalities based on my constitutional preferences, the same is true of those I know who vote SNP who won't vote for anyone else until independence is achieve. I'm not saying this is the wrong approach to take, just that it makes us closer to the electoral situation in NI than we might think. It is nowhere near comparable with just about anywhere else in the first world - NI is the only place where people vote largely in accordance with a religious affiliation, & one which in the vast majority of cases they don't even nominally follow at that. It's like the place is under the grip of some cultural psychosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said: It is nowhere near comparable with just about anywhere else in the first world - NI is the only place where people vote largely in accordance with a religious affiliation, & one which in the vast majority of cases they don't even nominally follow at that. It's like the place is under the grip of some cultural psychosis. Closest parallel is Lebanon, where you could accurately predict the election result just by looking at the census. It's not just tribal, rationally you know that the MP's will look after their own people first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 16 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said: It is nowhere near comparable with just about anywhere else in the first world - NI is the only place where people vote largely in accordance with a religious affiliation, & one which in the vast majority of cases they don't even nominally follow at that. It's like the place is under the grip of some cultural psychosis. You must have been in a deep coma in the early 90s if you failed to notice what unfolded in Bosnia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 51 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: You must have been in a deep coma in the early 90s if you failed to notice what unfolded in Bosnia. Yes, because a three year war is so similar to 300 years of various wars, random beatings, employment & social housing apartheid, etc, etc; with a large part of it being done for the "fun of it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Try googling Ustaše, if you think everything was wonderful in Bosnia and that there was no religious angle before Yugoslavia collapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Try googling Ustaše, if you think everything was wonderful in Bosnia and that there was no religious angle before Yugoslavia collapsed. Or before it was even created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 What Northern Ireland needs is a Tito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 What Northern Ireland needs is a Tito. I don't think eve the entire Jackson 5 could have sorted that place out. Even when Michael was alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: I don't think eve the entire Jackson 5 could have sorted that place out. Even when Michael was alive With such division here we could do with a man in the middle tbf . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 With such division here we could do with a man in the middle tbf . I thought my joke was Bad but you've managed to beat it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 " It's not because it's wee, it's because people vote tribally instead of for the best man/woman/policies. At least more so than in most places " Is this not what we see in Scotland now as well, those who support independence will either vote SNP or Green regardless of who is best for the job, those who oppose independence will vote for Tories / Labour / Libdems, likewise regardless of whether the Green / SNP candidate is better? I would never vote for the SNP regardless of policies or personalities based on my constitutional preferences, the same is true of those I know who vote SNP who won't vote for anyone else until independence is achieve. I'm not saying this is the wrong approach to take, just that it makes us closer to the electoral situation in NI than we might think. Isn't the point that in NI those constitutional preferences themselves arise out of tribal identity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: I thought my joke was Bad but you've managed to beat it Sorry....... Don't Want to be Starting Something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The similarity with Scotland is that you are voting either nationalist or unionist now , technically has been for many years but as Nationalist identity has grown in Scotland so has the idea of independence....the difference would be that I don't think that either side has a profile as such that we have here, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 14 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Try googling Ustaše, if you think everything was wonderful in Bosnia and that there was no religious angle before Yugoslavia collapsed. Still incomparable with Northern Ireland's 300 years of recreational bigotry amongst the peasantry & proletariat so those in the Big Hooses had them on a tight leash. Ljuljačka i promašaj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The legacy of the Ottoman millet system is arguably what indocrinated three groups in Bosnia that spoke the same language to see themselves as separate nations with disastrous consequences in the early 40s and early 90s in much the same way that the Penal Laws in 18th century Ireland set the stage for what followed. There is nothing unique or special about Ulster. Scotland only escaped having the politics of the 17th century moving on into the modern era because Presbyterianism eventually won definitively at Culloden to an extent that wasn't the case with the Boyne and Aughrim where Anglicanism was concerned in Ireland. It wasn't because we are innately superior in any way to people from the gerrymandered failed entity or however you prefer to refer to it. Homo sapiens arrived on the scene recently enough in evolutionary terms that we are all made of pretty much the same material in DNA terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The legacy of the Ottoman millet system is arguably what indocrinated three groups in Bosnia that spoke the same language to see themselves as separate nations with disastrous consequences in the early 40s and early 90s in much the same way that the Penal Laws in 18th century Ireland set the stage for what followed. There is nothing unique or special about Ulster. Scotland only escaped having the politics of the 17th century moving on into the modern era because Presbyterianism eventually won definitively at Culloden to an extent that wasn't the case with the Boyne and Aughrim where Anglicanism was concerned in Ireland. It wasn't because we are innately superior in any way to people from the gerrymandered failed entity or however you prefer to refer to it. Homo sapiens arrived on the scene recently enough in evolutionary terms that we are all made of pretty much the same material in DNA terms. You mean there isn't a Timothy Gene or a Billy Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 49 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: You mean there isn't a Timothy Gene or a Billy Gene It took me a while but I got there I'm sure there's a Billy Gene but I think she's a lesbian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: It took me a while but I got there I'm sure there's a Billy Gene but I think she's a lesbian. Don't worry. There will be other people who missed it at first, You are not alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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